Full Transcript

Dhruv Sharma: Hey there listeners, it's February 11th. The offline network is streaming live. We've got three guests, two hosts. Let's go. Yash, it's great to have you on the show. Thank you so much, Dhruv.

Utsav Somani: Welcome, Yash. So for our listeners who are listening about Curvy for the first time and they've not checked you out on Shark Tank, can you explain what the business is?

Yash Goyal — Co-founder & CEO, Krvvy: Yes. I'll explain just one line. So Curvy is a functional women's innerwear and shapewear brand. We believe that fashion is not the way to go when it comes to innerwear. It's a lot of function, a lot of support that we need for women and that's what we are doing.

Utsav Somani: And why innerwear? Like what is innerwear? I mean, sorry, it's a very dumb question. So I'm just asking it.

Yash Goyal — Co-founder & CEO, Krvvy: No, I think for decades we have been just used to a few brands and I think there has been no innovation, no differentiators. People are just trying to see what's good for them. They're trying to figure out what their lifestyle is like. Every single year when you grow up and you probably want to elevate your lifestyle, you want to purchase newer things and better things. There was nothing better in the country for the last so many years. So that's where we saw globally that a lot of new brands have done pretty well in understanding the right fabric, right construction, right sizing. And that's what we wanted to solve for. At the same time, women in general, this category is very concentrated towards myth, concentrated towards taboo. And that's where we want to break this, that, you know, we can speak about it. It's just a garment. It's not like it's rocket science or it's it's not something we should be speaking under the covers. We can be speaking about it very, very openly. So that's what we feel that is required in today's era at least.

Dhruv Sharma: Can you tell us what's behind the name and also who is your customer? How old is she? Where does she live?

Yash Goyal — Co-founder & CEO, Krvvy: So behind the name, I think two years ago I was discussing this name with my mom and she made a very good point for her age. It was very smart. I believe that she gave me that every woman out there, she has curves. It's more like that. The body type is very different. So she may or may not be able to cherish her curves or admire her curves. So why not just put a name behind just the word curves? And we got we got something in German and it used to be curve and curve and became curvy because it was very catchy and it was very short. So that's how we made this name curvy. And about the customer, I think anybody who's above 20 years old understands the lifestyle upgradation, understands what function is really needed for in her lifestyle. That's where we try to target those people. So it can be tier one, tier two, tier three. Anybody who's a student, professional, homemaker, probably somebody in her late 50s also for that matter. You know, it's a it's a very interesting thing. One of our customers, actually two of our customers is basically Hema Malini and wife of Govinda Sunita Ahuja. So we understand those people are 50 plus. Right. And we know that they're only and only looking for comfort in their life. So they're also our customers. So anybody who's seeking comfort is a customer for sure.

Utsav Somani: And you've raised capital before, I think from Titan Capital and All in Capital, but more recently on Shark Tank. How was that experience?

Yash Goyal — Co-founder & CEO, Krvvy: It was very, very different. I think we have raised capital with with institutional investors and, you know, that that entire process is very different. But with Shark Tank, it's it's very different because you are just pitching five different people and you know, you are in front of television and entire countries probably watching you. So anything that you say has to go around so well, it may or may not go against you as well. Right. And plus, in that moment, there are no cuts, there are no breaks, nothing. Right. It's just one flow. So you have to be very prim and proper with entire language that you are trying to put out there. And it has to be so, so well articulated also that a person who's listening to it understand it so well. Right. So I think pitching those people for over an hour, I mean, what we see in the episode is probably the edited version and that's 20, 30 minutes, but it was more than an hour. And there were too many questions and, you know, there was a whole lot of chaos because five people, five different perspectives, five opinions, you would get too many questions. So just handling those, those things and those questions in that chaos, that was something very, very different.

Utsav Somani: So I mean, participants have to pay for the display that's there on the set. Like, I mean, do you guys pay for that?

Yash Goyal — Co-founder & CEO, Krvvy: No, no, no. I think a lot of things that you need in your display, of course, there is a prerogative to it. Right. It's my brand. I want a few things to be displayed there on television. So those things are coming there. Those things have to be paid for by me because these are my things I want to put there. But a few things that, you know, Sony TV or Shark Tank, if they want to put for their own show, that's not chargeable because they're of course trying to support the people as well. There are too many founders who do not have a lot of money. So they might not be able to put a lot of things for display, right? So Sony TV and Shark Tank, they help.

Dhruv Sharma: I have a question. If Utsav and I had a Shark Tank pitch tomorrow, what would be your last minute advice to us? Like top three tips.

Yash Goyal — Co-founder & CEO, Krvvy: Forget, forget there are cameras and just keep speaking the way you speak.

Utsav Somani: I mean, the whole experience must be intimidating, right? Like, I mean, just generally being, I mean, anything that's televised is performative also, I guess.

Yash Goyal — Co-founder & CEO, Krvvy: It is. But I think a lot of, a lot of support comes from the Shark Tank team, you know, because they understand you are those people who are not in front of the camera. You're not those people who are going to be on television every single day, right? You are just in a reality show for them. So they try to comfort you a lot more in those three days of preparation and everything that they make sure that you don't fumble, you don't mess it up over the camera and you don't ruin the show in the end because they also have to take care of their own show in the end, right? So it becomes really comfortable. I would say it is of course intimidating because five big people in front of you, too many people who are just behind the crew and you are possibly trying to be in your best self. So there is a lot of pressure. But I do.

Dhruv Sharma: You're also bringing attention back to the business itself. What levers are you pulling just to, you know, be very innovative? And again, I want to use a little bit of a little bit of jargon, but disruptive in this category that has existed since long, but hasn't perhaps hasn't seen as much innovation.

Yash Goyal — Co-founder & CEO, Krvvy: Sure. I think on three fronts, we work very, very deeply and closely. Number one is product. What we have seen in the innovation part of fabric. So our fabric is very close to what Uniqlo is doing in their heat tech technology or in their stretch technology, the airism, if you have heard of it. Right. I think all those things we are working on very, very closely with. So that's number one. Number two, the construction techniques have changed over decades. What t-shirt you're wearing today, Dhruv, is basically a cut and sew t-shirt, which is purely by stitch. What we see in the market today as a new technology is basically bonding, which is pasting two fabrics, two garments without stitch. And that's what we do, because we make sure the you know, where it becomes invisible in the end. Right. And the second part to it is making sure this product reaches the right audience by the right, right marketing, which is the education front, which is the awareness front. You know, we never saw ads of women in a way in our childhood. Right. We could only see men underwear ads, which were famous, which were, you know, via Sunny Deol, Varun Deol, whatever.

Utsav Somani: But sense of the numbers of your journey so far. What are the numbers looking like?

Yash Goyal — Co-founder & CEO, Krvvy: So we began in May 2024. And today, after 18 months of business, we have done 1.4, 1.5 crores of business monthly as of last month. And now we are, you know, leveraging this growth, leveraging the understanding of our consumer. Probably in the next three months or four months, we will see a 2 crores per month sort of number. So that's where we are at.

Dhruv Sharma: Can this be an online only category or does there have to be an online offline play? Because what you're selling is so personal.

Yash Goyal — Co-founder & CEO, Krvvy: There has to be a very good offline channel. That is the primary channel of how India purchases. Online is a very new norm after COVID, I would say for this category. We have seen the share of online increasing a lot more, but that does not mean it is going to replace offline because we do need a very omnichannel sort of presence. So offline is the way to go for sure. And that's the plan. It's huge.

Utsav Somani: You have like, I mean, different sizes and stuff. I mean, the range must be huge, right?

Yash Goyal — Co-founder & CEO, Krvvy: It is huge, but we also don't do fashion, right? We only do basic stuff. So for example, if there's a shape where we just have five colors, probably tomorrow we'll add two more colors in two years and the sizes will be, you know, from extra small to 5x, let's say. But these are jump sizes. When I say jump sizes, it's more like extra small and small is in one. That's the outcome of the fabric and the construction we're talking about as an innovation because that reduces the number of sizes that we have to keep. So again, I'm not treating this as a very heavy fashion business, but again, with the barrel business, you have to take care of the working capital like that. But that's very manageable in our business.

Utsav Somani: And we've seen Kusha Kapila be very active with her brand online on social media as well. So I'm guessing social media plays a big role in getting new customers and awareness out for your brand as well.

Yash Goyal — Co-founder & CEO, Krvvy: It does. It does. I think thanks to her that we are also able to open up this category for a lot more people, right? Because a lot of folks out there, they've never tried shapewear in their life. So probably because of this awareness, social media content, you know, breaking the hesitation, this has really worked out for making sure this category can be created.

Utsav Somani: Dhruv, I think we have time for one more question, I think, from you.

Dhruv Sharma: Yeah. Well, so in this category, especially shapewear, Yash, what is the emotional need for the customer that you're trying to solve? Is it self-esteem? Is it confidence? And how does that reflect in, you know, how you do, how you market this product as well?

Yash Goyal — Co-founder & CEO, Krvvy: I think a lot of things do come from confidence and comfort both, right? Confidence, because see, nobody's perfect in the sense of how your body is, right? And everybody wants to look very Instagram worthy. Everybody wants to look very perfect for their own self. If you're purchasing a 5000 rupees Zara dress, you might want to just invest something in shapewear to look perfect in that dress. And that's how the ideology has become. That's one. Second, not at the cost of discomfort also, you can't be wearing a shapewear just for the sake of it and be more uncomfortable, right? So we are solving for both the factors that wear it for the confidence, but also be comfortable because that's what it matters so that you can wear it more.

Utsav Somani: All right, awesome. All the best on hitting all the milestones and wishing you the very, very best. Thank you for coming on the show. Thank you so much.

Yash Goyal — Co-founder & CEO, Krvvy: Thank you so much, Dhruv. Take care.

Utsav Somani: All right. Let's welcome somebody on the other side of the table now, Rahul from Stellaris. Rahul, welcome to the show.

Rahul Chowdhri — Partner, Stellaris Venture Partners: Thank you. Thank you for having me here, Utsav. So nice to see you, Dhruv.

Utsav Somani: Thank you so much for giving us the time. Our listeners who are hearing about Stellaris for the first time, can you introduce the fund to them?

Rahul Chowdhri — Partner, Stellaris Venture Partners: Sure, sure. So we are an early stage venture fund platform. When I say early stage, we do seed in series A. Half of our investments are maybe one, two, three founders of the business plan. So we come in as early as that. Typically invest across sectors wherever we think technology can play an interesting role. Focused on founders building from India for either India or global. So that's what we've been doing. We are like any other startup. We are only 10 years old. Started in 2017, the first fund. Now investing in our third fund, which is $300 million in size.

Utsav Somani: And what's the AUM of the business and how big is the portfolio now?

Rahul Chowdhri — Partner, Stellaris Venture Partners: So we have made 60 plus investments. Total AUM will be over $600 million across three funds.

Utsav Somani: And I mean, you said 50% of these investments that you made were paper stage, paper plant stage. So tell us a little bit more about how do you have, I mean, exposure at series A as well at such early stages.

Rahul Chowdhri — Partner, Stellaris Venture Partners: So you know, and this is not something that I would say we had originally thought of, but we realized over time that the investment team that we have really like working on, you know, building the business from scratch. Most of us also kind of build some kind of top-down thesis. And wherever we find amazing founders, you know, we just can't say no to them. So that's why we end up coming in very early. Series A, obviously there are a lot of companies who build boomstrap. We are not able to, you know, reach out to them in early days of their journey. So we would still want to partner with those founders. So that's how these two stages is our focus area.

Dhruv Sharma: So Stellaris was founded in 2017, right?

Rahul Chowdhri — Partner, Stellaris Venture Partners: We came up in 2016, now 2017 is when we started our first fund.

Dhruv Sharma: And you've obviously been a VC for much longer than that. Can you paint us a picture of how the seed ecosystem, specifically the seed ecosystem has changed from, you know, when Stellaris first started in 2017 and now?

Rahul Chowdhri — Partner, Stellaris Venture Partners: So there has been dramatic change. And in fact, I would say I started my venture journey in 2007. So it's now 19 years. And every five years is a very different phase I've seen. If you think of three main pillars of any startup, right? There is capital supply, there is talent supply, and there is a market. And in the last eight, 19, 20 years, everything has undergone a massive change. You know, in 2007, 2008 timeframe, there were like 10 venture funds. And that was the only source of capital available. Today, we have more than 100 micro VCs. We have like maybe 2025 Series A funds, Series B funds. So there is a specialization of capital that has happened, which is great for the ecosystem. Lot more global interest in India. And not only global, but also a lot of local LPs getting created who want to invest in India venture. Second has been on the, you know, talent. Clearly, 20 years back, most of the talent was people coming from global product companies to India. Today, we have a homegrown talent, people who have worked, built businesses in startups like Flipkart and Swiggy and Zomato and so on. Now saying, I want to build for my own. So these are much more, I would say, world founders. They know what it takes. They have the ecosystem to hire. You know, they have a very good understanding of their custom. So that's the second thing that has changed. And third, I would say the market itself. It was a very, very small market 20 years back. Today, you know, if you look at Zenzira, Zenfa, their native way of behavior is using technology and mobile phones. So we don't have to worry about whether they will be online, whether they'll pay online and so on. And with recent five years of IPOs, you know, we have kind of, at a phase, we've been completing the journey of building a small company to, you know, giving money back. So in that sense, I'm very excited where we are. And it's been a, you know, a very interesting evolution over the last 20 years.

Utsav Somani: And staying with the market for a little bit, I think a lot of VCs have started investing in the U.S. as well. Have you guys studied that trend where a lot of these big platform firms, which were dominant in India, and now have set up shop or hire partners in the U.S. or have partners who are traveling to the U.S. and investing very actively in U.S.-focused companies as well, maybe not even Indian founders in some cases. Is that trend going to accelerate because of AI? Like India is missing out on exciting AI companies. Is that something that you would say is happening?

Rahul Chowdhri — Partner, Stellaris Venture Partners: So clearly we are very excited about what India has.

Dhruv Sharma: Rahul, I think you just went to mute.

Rahul Chowdhri — Partner, Stellaris Venture Partners: Yeah. So what I was saying is, maybe I'll repeat again. I said, I was saying that, you know, we are very positive and excited about what Indian founders can build from India. And, you know, yes, AI is an interesting technology. They'll build using that. But I don't think today a founder from India is anywhere far behind anywhere, any founder building globally. Now, the beauty of, you know, when you have a variety of capital available is that different people have different strategies. So, you know, hopefully most of the strategies that we have, somebody setting a team in India, somebody saying India is good enough or large enough, both should work. At least, as I said, from where we stand, we are focused on building a backing.

Utsav Somani: Some internet issues, right?

Rahul Chowdhri — Partner, Stellaris Venture Partners: Utsav, are you able to hear me?

Utsav Somani: I think some glitches. I think the video is frozen, but I think audio is coming.

Speaker 7: I think so.

Utsav Somani: All right. So we'll resume with Rahul in a bit. I think there's some tech glitches, so fixing that out, but let's welcome our final guest for the show, at least on the roster, Akriti from Loopy. Akriti, welcome to the show.

Akriti Gupta — Founder & CEO, Loopie: Thanks a lot Utsav, great to be here. Thank you so much.

Utsav Somani: Thank you for giving us the time. And for our listeners who are hearing about Loopy for the first time, can you explain what the business does?

Akriti Gupta — Founder & CEO, Loopie: Sure. So at Loopy, we are creating India's first design-oriented premium gear brand. Today, we have strollers and car seats in the category. We will be looking at expanding and making more and more products, but very intentionally and thoughtfully designed products. And hence, it also takes us a bit of time to launch anything.

Utsav Somani: And I mean, I've recently become a parent as well, so I realized, and that's why I reached out for you to come on the show, because it's such a, I mean, the nuances that you learn after you get a stroller, and then you need that one hand fold, and like so many different things that you learn when you're like this thing. And every product is so different. So tell us about the design philosophy. Like, why is it a problem that you picked, and why are you solving it in a different way?

Akriti Gupta — Founder & CEO, Loopie: So first of all, Utsav, congratulations. I think I was just telling it to someone in the morning. It makes me genuinely happy when I hear that somebody has become a parent, because becoming a parent changed my life. It brings just a lot to someone. Why am I doing what am I doing? See, I have been in the category for 10 years old. So like, if you ask me technically, numerically and everything, I kind of knew the category in and out. But I became a parent 20 months back. So basically, when I was, when I had already ventured out, I was expecting. And that's when I started also looking at this category more as a customer, rather than, you know, somebody trying to solve something in the category. And I was simply amazed by the gap that it has today. So you either have like fairly low quality, unintentional products in the market, which are largely traded and so on. Or if I want anything decent quality, I will have to go for international brands. At least that was the case two years back. And that would be a very large sum. It will be super expensive. It will be, you know, the point is, it's not about you can afford it or not. You can, but it's not a rational decision. So I think I became a very angry parent.

Utsav Somani: But kids and infants grow out of this very quickly as well, right? A car seat, for your reference, drove a car seat or stroller. Like, I mean, there's like zero to 24 months and then separately for 24 months to four years. And like, I mean, it's just number of attachments that you need to get like a cup holder. And I mean, it's just crazy how, I mean, this is basically grow out of it and everything from Nuna Bugaboo. They're just super expensive. And I just feel like it's a waste of space and money also, because you keep on getting these things again and again. So you really built a brand where, I mean, I love the ads as well that you do. And I mean, my Instagram feed was at one point full of the things because I was researching the products and you compare. No, no, it was solid targeting. So all the comparisons came and I was just sold. I mean, extremely good quality products as well.

Akriti Gupta — Founder & CEO, Loopie: So, yeah. And I think, I think that's when we've already kind of, you know, charted out the user for us. See in India, we, in our childhood, we're not users of these products, right? These are products now we are using for our children. We're also kind of learning about the category. Our requirements are very different from what a European parent needs. They have like a lot more space. They can keep like three strollers, four strollers. That is normal for them. We want the product to be able to do everything. So when you look at an Indian consumer, our requirements are different. What we want to solve for design or whatever, whenever we kind of get very deeply into design, it is really about understanding that Indian parent. How do you give the Indian parent a lot of value? How do you make sure that you are getting a very high quality product for your child? And you don't feel that after a year that, oh, this was, you know, a decision which I shouldn't have made. So I think, I think that's where all of the design comes from.

Utsav Somani: We'll take a pause and ask his question about this thing, potential future in the future. So yeah.

Dhruv Sharma: Former baby and future parent, right? So, I mean, what am I even saying? But no, Akriti, so let's stay with design for a bit, because that's such an interesting area. So what are some specific challenges you try to solve for? My guess is Indian road conditions or the fact that today we have nuclear families, for instance, and you can't have hand-me-down products, even if you wanted to. So maybe the family structure, but really for you to answer and tell us how all of that came into your design philosophy as well.

Akriti Gupta — Founder & CEO, Loopie: Okay, that's, that's a large question. I'll try to break it down and structure it. I think, see, I think the first and foremost challenge is the mindset that we have to really kind of struggle and solve for. Can you get high quality products? Yes, you can. Do you want high quality products? Yes, you can. Is it possible for an Indian brand to do it? That's a mindset that we are, we sometimes struggle with and we are, I think changing it one step at a time. That's one. The second, when you are thinking about design, you also need a certain kind of team who can do design for you, et cetera, et cetera, right? You need people you can work with to create the kind of design that you want and being the first movers in that area, everything has to be figured. Like if you think about design today in India, it is either UI, UX, I'm talking about hiring side of it more, or it is me too products. So, to get the right person who will understand the mammoth task that you have taken and the value product that you want to create, I think that's the ecosystem that you have to first solve for. Then comes understanding the Indian user who wants great products, but because like I said, we are also first time users of it, identifying that what you really want, what is great to have, what is good to have, what is a must have. All of this also, I mean, you have to go really deep. So, that takes us easy four to five months just to get what to solve. And then comes the whole design process.

Dhruv Sharma: As we were preparing to speak with you, we realized that the baby is not the first customer you serve. It's actually the mom soon after she has the baby. So, can you tell us a little more about that as well? That other brand and how does that fit into the overall approach? Dads also.

Utsav Somani: We fixed the car seat and the strollers. I was just going to say that. It's dads actually. It is dads.

Akriti Gupta — Founder & CEO, Loopie: Because in the third trimester, the mom is already going through so much with her pregnancy and so much is going on in her body. The dad actually takes up the heavy load. And I'm so glad that we have so involved dads now. I think that's a major lifestyle shift that has happened in the country. That dads are so involved that in the third trimester, they are doing that research and figuring out what's there, what's not there. Of course, it's a combined decision. But yes, dads have stepped up. The first person that you have to solve for is the new dad and the new mom. Modern parents, as we call them. And our products have to fit in your lifestyle. We can't create a product that doesn't match with what your day-to-day looks like. If you are living in, let's say... I'm in Gurgaon. Let's say you are living in a residential society. You have a certain kind of space. You are traveling by Lyft. You have a car at the basement, etc. You maybe are going to take your kid to the daycare. How your lifestyle is going to be, the product has to fit into it. So it is parent-first thinking. Of course, it has to be very safe, very comfortable for the child too.

Utsav Somani: I'm guessing your hero product is the stroller, right?

Akriti Gupta — Founder & CEO, Loopie: I would say yes. I mean, that was the first product that we worked most on. It took us, I think, one and a half years of design.

Utsav Somani: Through the journey of that, where was it designed? Where is it manufactured? What are the big channels that you advertise on and spend on? And how does it reach the customer?

Akriti Gupta — Founder & CEO, Loopie: That's a great question. Actually, that's a great question for maybe other people who are also looking to start in the area. See, the design process, like I said, I think it's three, four months of figuring out what the user wants. So there is secondary and primary research. What's available in the market? What do we want to be our quality benchmark, etc.? During this time, we also got involved with the London design firm, Morama. We started working with them. And they started figuring out, okay, what are the great things that they knew from their European history? What are the things which are very different from an Indian user that we could bring? That, you know what, maybe for Europe, this works. For India, it doesn't. Including the road conditions and so on, so forth. So that was happening. Partially, we also started working on which factory can produce this for us. Now, that's a challenge. See, the stroller also is made in China for us. But the factories that we work with, they are, let's say, one of the top three factories in China. These are people who do not work with any Asian counterpart. So while we went to them and we had to convince them, like for four, five months, that these work with us, we want to create high quality. These were people who were only working with European brands. So to get them to produce for us, work on our design, and so on, was a task there. So you get the factory. You parallelly start working on the design. You get the consumer inside. And then all of these things start working together. So the design team and the factory starts working together. You do a lot of prototyping. It is at least three, four phases of prototyping. Then there is testing, safety standards, etc. And after that is when you are able to launch. In between, of course, you have the product shoot, and all these other things. So that was the one and a half year journey for us, for the first stroller that we launched. We launched primarily on B2C, but very quickly went to Amazon because we knew our users wanted to buy from Amazon also. We also realized that people want to experience our products. So today we are present in some 22 multi-brand outlets across the country. We are extending this further, and I think as and when the time comes, we will also start putting our own stores.

Utsav Somani: And I mean, the pricing, suppose I compare it to a Nuna, at least one-fourth of them, right? So what are the margins on something like this for you?

Akriti Gupta — Founder & CEO, Loopie: The margins are actually fairly... We run on very tight margins because we want a certain quality. So our gross margin is around 51% today. For any international brand, that gross margin would be way higher. But because we design, we do not compromise on the quality, etc. So our margins are thin. And hence we are able to get you the product at the price that we can.

Utsav Somani: And how has the business shaped up after your Shark Tank appearance? I believe you didn't take a deal on the show.

Akriti Gupta — Founder & CEO, Loopie: No, we got two deals. I couldn't take it. I couldn't be unfair to our existing investors, just couldn't do that. But yeah, I think Shark Tank was a great experience. See, our products are also for users who are taking their time. These are critical purchases. It's like, it's a new user. You better know it. I mean, you're not going to buy any stroller. People actually compare us with anything and everything present in the market. And they have to be 200% sure that this is the best decision I'm making. That's when they buy us. So while Shark Tank gave us 10x searches, everything, all of that happened. But I don't think it translated into immediate business for us. What has happened is that, let's say maybe initially, somebody would take five days on the website to decide to buy. Today they take one day. So that trust has come in.

Dhruv Sharma: Dhruv, any final closing questions? Yes, I do have one, which is, Akriti, as you think about expanding the product portfolio, is it going to grow along with the needs of this young family? As in, you know, the babies are going to turn into toddlers, into whatever you call them thereafter? Or is it going to be objects in our daily lives where you have a unique point of view and are able to, you know, bring in safety and functionality and all of those things?

Akriti Gupta — Founder & CEO, Loopie: So there are two areas wherein we are immediately working on. One is, like you said, it is going to go with the child, of course. Like, for example, today we want to be solving for a new parent in their zero to one year journey. We do not have all the products out for the zero to one year journey. We are working on high chairs and bouncers and carriers and everything. So that's going on. There's another area wherein we think there must be a lot of value which is toys, but in a manner, something that makes the child more independent. So maybe imagine a small size functioning fridge, maybe a small size functioning water dispenser, et cetera, et cetera. So, you know, for kids to have things around in the house and they don't feel out of place, the stuff just makes sense. So I think these are the two large areas that we are thinking about.

Utsav Somani: Just for your reference, like go through this website called allthingsbaby.com. You'll, I mean, be shell shocked at the number of categories which exist. Like I think so. Akriti has a lot that she can do with the loopy. But baby food is one category which I think needs to be solved for, right? Everything that's imported is super expensive and all the Indian brands, I think there's quality and different issues that come up as well, I think from time to time. Has that...

Akriti Gupta — Founder & CEO, Loopie: No, I completely resonate with you, but see, I don't think we can solve everything. Unfortunately, we can't. So food is a different way of thinking. It's a very different way of product thinking, product designing, everything. I don't think we will be able to go deep into that. Today, we are very, very deep in creating hard products, which makes sense, which function for you, which are very high quality. So I think those are the areas that we're thinking about today.

Utsav Somani: All right. Awesome. Thank you so much and all the best.

Akriti Gupta — Founder & CEO, Loopie: Thanks a lot.

Utsav Somani: Thank you, Akriti. All right. Now we have got Rahul back on the hot seat. Rahul, welcome to the show. I mean, it happens to the best of us. So I think our conversation was at the point where we were talking about Indian investors investing in the US, AI. Like I think a lot of people have this chatter that's going on secretly in WhatsApp group that India is missing the AI wave as well. So what are the opportunities? I think that's the second question. But the first one is that investors from India are investing in US founders mostly and in terms of AI. And then what are the opportunities in your fund's point of view that here's the AI stack, here's what Indian founders can do.

Dhruv Sharma: I can add to this question and Rahul can answer all of that at once, which is, Rahul, I mean, you know, 2017 again, I'm sort of anchoring to that year and maybe this is one of the big platform shifts, platform shifts that has taken place since then. So we want to understand how does the calculus inside of a firm change, you know, with respect to a fund that is in the money when such a thing happens, you can't sit it out, you have to play. Sometimes, you know, there's uncertainty, but so again, I think all of those senses.

Utsav Somani: We've asked Rahul a lot. So yeah, if you want us to decap at any point, please let us know.

Rahul Chowdhri — Partner, Stellaris Venture Partners: Definitely. I'll ask for help if I end up, you know, if you guys feel I'm not answered. I think you asked three questions together, right? So the first one being global investments, at least I would say the good part about India is that there are so many funds that we all might have different strategies and different strategies might work also. Now, at least as a fund, it is hard for me to comment on what others are doing. We feel there is so much to do in India. We have an advantage of sitting here knowing people who are leaving, working with them and helping them. So our focus is mostly on founders building from India. Now, what are we excited about within AI? And I'll maybe now answer both the questions together. As a fund, we were always excited about AI and that is nothing to do with ChatGPT or, you know, October 22 when it got launched and all. In our fund too, there are at least five companies and fund too started in 2021 which had AI as their base case offering. In fund one, we had a company like Sainzi which was AI first company. Now, those are not generative AI companies. They were classic AI companies. But the fact that AI can, you know, transform or change outcomes for a business or a consumer was very clear to us. So we have been investing in AI. Clearly, what the new age or the generative AI allows you to do is even more transformative. As a fund, we have always believed that technology breakthroughs create new and large opportunities. So to Dhruv's question, we are very positive and we feel that there are few areas that are very obvious on, you know, what we are bullish on. Now, we will always be opportunistic on other areas but three areas that we feel on the enterprise side that are exciting. One I would say is developer tools. So we believe that India and when it's a factual information that India has the second largest developer base globally. So lot of developer tools that are AI first will come out of India. And we have couple of companies on our fund 2 and fund 3 portfolio who are building for that. There are applications that will get built from India on top of other fundamental, you know, foundation models. And the third piece where again India has an advantage is services which are AI led or AI led services as we call it where in lot of situations the customer is looking for a 100% correct answer. So for example, you want an AI to do an account you know, posting in your accounting system. You can't be 99% or 95% accurate. You do 100% accurate. And the one way to do that is to provide that as an outcome-based solution where you say I will get it done for you and in 100% accurate manner. Now at the back end because AI hallucinates is not accurate maybe you will have few human beings helping you correct and make it 100%. And again given you know India has been the IT services capital of the world has again an advantage. So these are three areas on the enterprise AI side that we are excited about. And on the consumer AI actually I feel that's an opportunity that we haven't yet even seen companies being built up. There are few companies that we have seen in the last year which is like a companion AI or astrology companies and concierge and all. But those are all just starting points. If you look at education as a sector or health as a sector or finance as a sector these are core services that most Indians can't afford. AI can actually democratize and provide that same outcome at a much lower price because the human being requirement to provide their service goes down considerably. So again that's an area that we are interested in. I hope I answered all the three questions. If not do let me know.

Utsav Somani: Absolutely solid. When a founder chooses to work with Stellaris and you choose to partner with the founder as well you were a firm believer of this statement that you made publicly as well that the founder should always diligence the firm. Describe that for us. In a world that's competitive in terms of capital availability where a top founder has so many different choices how does diligence work?

Rahul Chowdhri — Partner, Stellaris Venture Partners: The tweet I made was in context of a live diligence I was doing and I could see the founder was calling some of our portfolio companies to understand who is Rahul and who is Stellaris. Sometimes you may feel bad but I felt good that they were making a choice. A good founder always has multiple choices to take money from. It's a long journey. There are a lot of choices they have. They need to find somebody who understands their business and their style of working. The best way to do it is to talk to the portfolio and their behavior. How do they behave in tough times? Are they supportive or not? In my mind a board member needs to be a great coach but not a great player. They can ask questions but they will never have the right answers. If you are a founder who wants that kind of board member then Stellaris is the right fit for you. If you are looking for somebody who will tell you exactly what to do, maybe they are not the right people. We might give you advice but maybe half of it would be wrong. I would rather refrain from doing that.

Dhruv Sharma: We covered consumer and AI but I want to bring up emerging tech which is one of the other things that has become the dominant conversation of the day. One side believes this is the moment we were waiting for and the other side is like all of this is happening too soon. It is an open-ended question but we would love to draw you in and get your insight on what is happening as well.

Rahul Chowdhri — Partner, Stellaris Venture Partners: We believe right now we are at the right stage to start investing in deep tech. There are some strong tailwinds one sees both globally and domestically. Domestically there is a requirement for the country to be more indigenous. Across different technologies including deep tech. It could be robotics. It could be space as a technology. It could be AI as well. Chips and data centers on top of it. That is a clear tail wind and I don't see that changing given how global order is playing out. It is hard to say there is a permanent friend. As a large country we have to become self sufficient. Globally also how again I would say in a lot of countries the young workforce is only going to come down. There is a requirement to provide technology solutions again to improve productivity. Labor costs going up and so on. We believe right now is a good time. It may not be a large market today. These can create large outcomes. As a fund we have different teams now building expertise into these areas. Semiconductor versus space versus robotics are very different topics. In our view we have to all learn it. That is how we are doing it. Different people are working in these areas.

Utsav Somani: There is a question from the live audience as well. What is the flow like for a founder? His view on pre-seed and what percentage might be pre-seed stage? I am guessing 50%.

Rahul Chowdhri — Partner, Stellaris Venture Partners: When we say seed we mean pre-PMF companies. Most of them are business plan stage companies. We go as early as that.

Utsav Somani: Why don't you walk us through that investment as a case study? What did you see in them? How did you discover them and how did the journey play out?

Rahul Chowdhri — Partner, Stellaris Venture Partners: I was investing for nine years prior to when we started Stellaris. It was clear to us that consumers in India are still starved of options. In 2017-18 it was clear that new brands needed to be created. There were multiple distribution platforms getting built on the e-commerce side. Amazon, Flipkart, they were getting built. One of the challenges was distribution. These platforms provided an opportunity to go national on day one. It was a combination of brands and availability that led us to say that there are ventures possible. We looked at a few sectors and beauty and there were a founders building that space. It was clear to they had an amazing combination of consumer understanding and online distribution understanding. That is a rare combination to find in young teams. They were not raising money. We had to chase them to raise money from us. Luckily, they agreed. We had ecosystem support saying it was good to participate. That is when we made our first investment.

Utsav Somani: What do the returns look like? Anything you shared publicly?

Rahul Chowdhri — Partner, Stellaris Venture Partners: I don't know. We owned about 9%. It was a great return. It completed a lot of venture requirements on large returns in a short time frame.

Utsav Somani: Have you continued making consumer brand investments after that?

Rahul Chowdhri — Partner, Stellaris Venture Partners: We have been in multiple brands. We are on the handbag side. We are in home decor side. We made an interesting investment in a business that is building consumer electronics from India. They launched a range of smart TVs and projectors. They have done amazingly well on Amazon. They have redesigned the hardware accordingly. We invested in a company called Outsider. We recently announced a company called Material Depot which is acquiring consumers online and driving them to stores to buy home decoratives. We are excited about multiple businesses.

Dhruv Sharma: Rahul, maybe you want to follow up on the question one of the guest users was asking. For a VC like you with a big checkbook and track record, why do you still like to partner as early as you possibly can? What are the obvious reasons and what are the non-obvious reasons as well?

Rahul Chowdhri — Partner, Stellaris Venture Partners: The obvious reason is we believe we have the DNA and DNA to identify great founders at that time and desire to work with them in those early days. We have found that that is our strength and interest as a team. It is basically saying this is what we like to do and hence we want to do it. The non-obvious reason is there are larger risks when you take these kinds of investments but we are okay with as a fund but the returns are also large for the ones that work out because you come in at ground zero and hopefully get more ownership for the amount you are investing in and if things work out you can hopefully get large outcomes or large multiples for our investors. Those are the reasons why we do it.

Utsav Somani: As the fund sizes increase you will probably start taking later stages as well. Fund size is your strategy.

Rahul Chowdhri — Partner, Stellaris Venture Partners: What we have been conscious of is to have the right fund for the stage we are investing in and the bandwidth we have to invest in. If you see our third fund while we raised 300 we took about three months to raise it and the demand was over 350 million. We cut down the fund size because we know that beyond this number from the 24 vintage we didn't believe that one can create venture outcomes. The other piece to look for is the bandwidth on our end. added Naman who was long part of the fund became a partner. We can make 28 to 30 investments. Both reasons to say we don't want to deviate from our strategy. It was easy for us to raise a larger fund and an opportunity fund. We want to stay focused on these things.

Utsav Somani: I invested in his first company. He started a new consumer brand as well. As a final question to close us out, you host a podcast as well. Tell us about that content creation journey. Some tips you want to share with us.

Rahul Chowdhri — Partner, Stellaris Venture Partners: Definitely. I have two different reasons to do that show. One is I believe as I am getting older, if I want to continue making investments, I need to know what a younger consumer is thinking, behaving, what it is like. It is always hard. I am not that consumer anymore. You did something in 2030.

Utsav Somani: Three learnings I can take away from that.

Rahul Chowdhri — Partner, Stellaris Venture Partners: Consumer 2030 is more of us trying to predict what might happen in the future. That is one format. The other format is more to learn. There are a few things I have learned. While there is a vertical learning, what I learned is for them convenience is a base thing. When I as a consumer think, I believe I am paying for convenience. For them, use of AI and technology is a default. The question is what do they want to buy or pay for? That is something to learn. If you can save time for them, they are willing to pay for it. That is an interesting thought. I also feel that we will follow global trends. At least in this younger audience, they are building global trends. What is happening in US and China is happening in India at the same time. We are no longer followers. There are a lot of other things I have seen. But those are the two or three things I found interesting across the podcast.

Utsav Somani: Thank you so much for coming on the show today. I wish you all the best. That is it from us today. We will see you on Friday at 4 p.m. Thank you.