Dhruv Sharma: You're watching The Offline Network, and we are live. So Pranav asked me to say that. How are you doing, listeners? We weren't here with you on Monday and Wednesday, and that may or may not have been because it's... And I actually ran a half marathon on Sunday. And then just lots has been happening since itself. How are you doing?

Utsav Somani: Good. Good. Good to be back. Friday fun show. Let's go.

Dhruv Sharma: How's the how's the how's the Bombay, how's our offline community in Bombay doing?

Utsav Somani: It's amazing. We did a small Diwali gathering for our members, encore and offline offline members, and it was fun to see everyone come together with their spouses and partners. I think everyone's pumped for Sri Lanka. I think that's the next thing that everyone's looking forward to where the full community will come together. And, Mayank, we're gonna miss you in Sri Lanka, buddy.

Mayank Banerjee (Even Healthcare): What's up? As always, we just talked. I'm really boring now, man. I I now live with my parents, which is probably be the other big change since we first met. What? Yeah. My dad's a doctor that works with us. The deal was in order to work over, we have to live together. My mom's moved at the age of 33. I am back living with my parents. These are not words I ever wanted to save when I was 18, but it's fine, man. Living my best life.

Utsav Somani: Nice. I mean, living with, your parents must, of course, have some privileges as well because, I mean, cooked food, all of that stuff taken care of on autopilot when you're busy focusing on this company. And congrats on the new 50,000,000 raise. You got more to, focus on now.

Mayank Banerjee (Even Healthcare): Thank you so much. Yep. More capital is great. We can invest in trying to build the best health care system in India, and we're super excited about it. Slightly terrified of how much work it will be. But like you said, come home nine thirty, have a bowl of cut fruit. What more can I ask for, man? It it just ticks all the boxes.

Dhruv Sharma: Does your father, who's also a doctor, have high expectations now with more gas in the tank?

Mayank Banerjee (Even Healthcare): Papa thinks everything is terrible. And every day, he will tell me why everything is terrible and how we can improve, which is amazing. Learn every day. And... Yeah. I think it's going... It's been amazing working with him, working with the entire team, and I think finding those little areas that you can improve on every single day. It's it's fun, not to sound too p r e, but it's actually great. Right? I'm I'm loving it.

Utsav Somani: You were having friends on the show. We just started off in a very awkward and half as hard way. So let's, I think, structure this properly. Like, for the listeners, you came on TON forty four. You evolved since. You've done a lot more. You have two hospitals, six under construction. You've raised 50,000,000 from Khosla Ventures coming again and again. Tell us the life that you live to get to this stage as a company.

Mayank Banerjee (Even Healthcare): So our goal has always been very simple. It is how do you ensure every single Indian has access to world class health care, hopefully at a price they can afford or if not covered by the insurance they have. So we started off selling insurance, and that was actually our very first kind of seed round was to get that going. But so very kindly put in some money alongside some other great investors. But

Utsav Somani: you were calling them memberships back in the day or you changed the name. Right?

Mayank Banerjee (Even Healthcare): Yes. Because historically, it was selling a group product. Now we sell a retail product, but essentially membership slash subscription slash subscription slash insurance. And then as time went on, we realized that the majority of the spend of any kind of insurance premium is spent on claims. And these claims were happening at health care providers that all too often we felt weren't always doing the right thing for the patient. And just as importantly, we're in some cases overcharging the insurer. So we decided to go down the value chain and build out... Firstly, started hiring doctors, so telemedicine doctors. Then we built out our own clinics, and now we're building out our own hospitals. And the goal is to provide an end to end care experience that is actually explicitly designed to keep you healthy, which sounds really obvious and what a hospital should do, but actually is not how they function day to day.

Dhruv Sharma: Your press release actually had this line that a lot of people love, Mayank, which is with this, you will now go and build hospitals expressively to keep people out of them. Why do you guys say that?

Mayank Banerjee (Even Healthcare): Because it is... I don't know about you. I've never wanted to get a surgery. Right? The best thing for the member, for the patient, for the subscriber, or the customer is to avoid a surgery in the first place. And our business model is one where on the back end, we link up with insurers. And so if we can cut down cost for them, which the easiest way to cut down cost is to avoid a surgery in the first place, we will invest in physiotherapy, in medical management, in diabetes reversal to cut down sometimes very specific instances of surgery or decrease the probability that you have an unplanned surgery. And if I do that, saves insurers money, It's good for our members and patients, and we have a business model at the back end that makes it all work.

Utsav Somani: And you also put out a statement where you said 85 to 90 of Even Healthcare members within the five kilometer radius of, the hospital actually choose your hospital lower than any other care provider. Why is that? Why are people coming TON again and again apart from the membership? If they were not taking a membership, why should they come to an Even hospital?

Mayank Banerjee (Even Healthcare): So... Yeah. I think that's a really good question. It's probably the thing that we're most proud of. Because technically, the insurance that anyone chooses to buy from us, they can visit any hospital in Bangalore. Right? We don't stop you at all. We... You're entirely allowed to go anywhere you want. Yet, like you said, people choose us. That's because we try and build a relationship with them a year before they ever need to go to a hospital. Through our telemedicine services, through preventative care, we try and ensure that they get the best clinical outcomes. That's probably the thing that we're most obsessed by. Right? So our patient reported outcomes are significantly higher than the best hospitals in the world. We have lower readmission rates than pretty much every other hospital in India. And so all of those things combined to people end up choosing us even though they don't need to.

Dhruv Sharma: Tell us more about how you've redesigned and centers for the physicians. Man, I was so pleasantly surprised to read that all of them, if not... I mean, I guess all of them have equity in the business as well.

Mayank Banerjee (Even Healthcare): Yeah. I mean, we we think everyone who works at Even is helping build Even. As a result, they should share in the upside. Upside. So physicians, engineers, product managers, nursing staff, anyone who's an employee has equity in even. And sometimes people don't even realize the value of it, and that's fine. We hope that in the long run, it's all worth it, but we deeply believe in long term games with long term people. So that bit's been very important for us. In terms of the doctor incentives, it's fixed. Their salaries are not linked to the revenue that they bring. Increasingly, we are finding that we are able to link some small component of incentives to great patient outcomes. So if the goal is that someone brings their mom in and the goal is to be able to walk in six weeks time post a total knee replacement, well, actually, if the doctor is able and our entire support staff is able to help you get to that goal, we think they should be rewarded. But incentives are the absolute bedrock of our entire business.

Utsav Somani: And, I mean, AI is, of course, mentioned in every press release. And you're... I'm guessing you're using AI to review, a bunch of these cases as well. So what are the fascinating uses of AI in health care that you're doing at... Even right now?

Mayank Banerjee (Even Healthcare): I think it's probably the bit that I'm most excited about, and it's probably, like, in some ways, really boring. Right? It is to make sure... Right now, how does a hospital do clinical audit? Generally, they will look at cases once a month or see if something went wrong and try and do kind of a root cause analysis. For us, because every single case is tracked across multiple vectors from telemedicine to in person person to in the OT, we're able to see in real time what we can do better, suggest nudges to ensure that the right protocols are followed, and it's leading to better outcomes. It is not having any impact on revenue. Don't care. It is making our patient outcomes better, which I think in the long run is the only thing that matters for a hospital or a health care business.

Dhruv Sharma: Ma'am, I have a hunch. I know how you're gonna answer this question, but what's it like been to have Khosla as a as a capital partner? And, what would you like to say about new partners who've come along with the ride?

Mayank Banerjee (Even Healthcare): I'm grateful to every single one of our investors. Vinod, in particular, is the first person I've met who makes me feel incredibly lazy and unproductive. There's actually a a story where every year he has a summit, there's a conference. Right? Sunday starts at 5PM, and it's pretty much back to back till Tuesday night. He's the first person in. He's the last person out. He's 69 years old. Finished the conference. On Wednesday, I have a one on one with him. It's at 11PM. And, honestly, I'm pretty tired. Right? It's it's been kind of intense, maybe the jet lag. We have our meeting. He's fully switched on. 11:55, we're just finishing up. I ask him making small talk, but, no, what are you having for lunch? He looks me dead in the eye, and he says, Mayank, I have not had time for lunch for the past twenty five years. I am back to back from 8AM till 8PM, but I think we have some food in the lobby if you want. And I'm just, like, feeling bad about eating lunch. The guy is relentless, and you can tell if he's doing this at sixty nine, he was probably doing it twenty nine, thirty nine, whatever. Yeah. Very grateful to have him as a believer. Slightly terrified....

Utsav Somani: Not get NFL tickets?

Mayank Banerjee (Even Healthcare): Oh, man. I don't think I'm yet there.

Dhruv Sharma: My client's literally being asked to skip lunch. It said there's gonna be no NFL ticket. I know,

Mayank Banerjee (Even Healthcare): man. I don't know how

Utsav Somani: a dude

Dhruv Sharma: does it.

Mayank Banerjee (Even Healthcare): That's that's the thing. I'd be fine if he was asking you to skip lunch. It was just that subtle, well, I'm too busy to have lunch.

Utsav Somani: What? You do lunch? Yeah. Week.

Mayank Banerjee (Even Healthcare): So, yeah, maybe everyone can work a little bit harder. I'm sure that's the cancelable story, but, hey, it it works. The the guy's backed some great companies, and we're very grateful to to have him support us.

Dhruv Sharma: I think the Seahawk tickets, if that's the team, are gonna be his IPO gift TON, Anchor Venti. Yeah. Yeah.... Parcels.

Utsav Somani: Yeah.

Mayank Banerjee (Even Healthcare): IPO is a long way away. Watch it. Who knows? We just care about patients. Can we do... Can we build the best health care system in the world? I weirdly believe we can, and we probably

Utsav Somani: What are you doing towards that vision? Like, I mean, so you've built two hospitals. I believe six are under construction. So you moved from a software sort of insurance plate to now, like, running these physical setups. Like, I mean, the CapEx is heavy, 60 bed stakes, 3,500,000.

Mayank Banerjee (Even Healthcare): Yeah.

Utsav Somani: So how do you, like... I mean, build a balance sheet around this? How do you build a business around this? How do you think about growth?

Mayank Banerjee (Even Healthcare): So I'm very fortunate that......

Utsav Somani: Fifty million days you.

Mayank Banerjee (Even Healthcare): The the team that I work with, I'm lucky enough to be part of. They're the ones that do all the hard work. So when people talk to me about building hospitals, I'm like, no. There's there's a whole team of people that are responsible for that. I think it is a CapEx heavy business, but capital is invested to generate a return, and our model just happens to give what we think are already pretty great returns and will soon be spectacular returns. And so in the very long run, we think India probably has a bad shortfall right now of about 1,000,000. That is a crazy amount of money that you might need to raise or invest, forget raise at some point whether it's debt or equity or, you know, actual cash flow. That would be nice. Equally, that's equivalent to, I think, a third of OpenAI's latest round. So imagine that you can fill the entire shortfall of health care capacity in India with about a third of whatever the series g round is of one of the Frontier Labs. I think it's not impossible. I think it's very much game on. They will be very hard. It may take a long time, but we're excited for the journey.

Dhruv Sharma: And what's it gonna take to just spread and proliferate the impact, Mayank? I mean, there's a limit to how many hospitals you can open at the end of the day. Why? Also, so the aim is to keep going on opening new and new hospitals?

Mayank Banerjee (Even Healthcare): I think over time, if we earn the right

Dhruv Sharma: I I guess the question I'm asking is... I'm sorry. But is really about the care delivery mechanism. Is it going to be through physical hospital chains, or are there gonna be partnership models we're not seeing yet?

Mayank Banerjee (Even Healthcare): We care about whatever gives patients the best outcome. Right? It's probably the thing that I talk the most about. I think that there will always be a need for a physical setup because the human body is a physical body. Right? Now modern medicine is spectacular. If tomorrow, there is a super drug that ensures that you never get sick again. Right? Obviously, it would make so much sense for us to invest in trying to distribute that and being that kind of touch point. Equally, people will still get injured. People will still get old. They will have falls. We wanna support them as and when they are. The format might change. What a hospital is today might look completely different in ten years' time. And maybe, actually, we might be well placed to to help figure that out for our members, our patients, and some of our insurance partners. That's probably the bit that I'm most excited by. How can you deliver incredible health care to people for the lowest possible price? I think there are there are some businesses that will stand the test of time. They just might change along the way. I hope this is one of those.

Utsav Somani: If you were not running Even Healthcare, what is one part of the hospital stack or the health care stack in India you would change?

Mayank Banerjee (Even Healthcare): Really good question. I think you guys might have seen that there are some changes in the the, the regulators doing commissions for insurance, I think that is going to be great for the insurance. And I think one model in The US, for example, if you have a loss ratio that is below 80 or 85%, you refund that premium to customers, which helps ensure that the vast majority of premium is actually spent on health care. If I could think of one policy change, it would be that. Otherwise, I'm pretty excited about what we get to work on every day with the people I get to work on it with.

Utsav Somani: Love it. Have a wonderful meal, and please remember not to skip your lunch or dinner.

Mayank Banerjee (Even Healthcare): Yeah. Thank you

Utsav Somani: so much for coming on the show, man. Have a good weekend.

Mayank Banerjee (Even Healthcare): Thank you so much. Thanks for having me again.

Utsav Somani: Cheers. Bye

Dhruv Sharma: bye.... Again. Thanks, man.

Utsav Somani: Alright. Listeners, moving on to our next segment, we've got Sriram and Surya from Curapod. Guys, welcome to the show.

Sriram Velliyur (Curapod): It's a pleasure to be here.

Utsav Somani: Man, I keep seeing all of your ads on Instagram. I personally take red light every two days. I think I have a full panel at home, which has, like, I think two sixty two LEDs, perhaps. I think maybe even more. But you were doing these small, small, fascinating devices. So I wanted to learn from you personally about how effective they are. But I think before we get into that and the science behind this, I think maybe just explain to our listeners what red light therapy is.

Surya Prakash Maguluri (Curapod): Sure. So one is, so... Hello. So I'm doctor Surya. So to to tell you about the red light therapy. Right? Like, one is... Like, most of the people, would name, red light therapy or infrared light therapy as light therapy, but, technically, it should be called as photobiomodulation. So what is photobiomodulation is nothing but, like, using specific wavelengths of light to trigger certain positive biochemical reactions to attain a particular outcomes in the body. Like, for example, in our case, we're using, light, clinical grade light to, alleviate pain. So it it falls under photovibodymolysis. The applications of PBM are, wide, extremely huge. Like, for example, it can be used on hair care. It can... Currently, in 2026, the the Nobel Prize in science was given, in optogenetics. It means, like, using light, to trigger brain cells. So that's how, the PBM and the light therapy works, Utsav.

Utsav Somani: Wow. But, I mean, maybe a little bit more. Like, I mean, I basically, I mean, have a very basic one zero one on this where I think it's a technology developed by NASA. Right? Yeah. For the astronauts, what help... To help them recover faster in space. I mean, this was, like, I think, nineteen sixties, and this is why I think we're being able to use this at our home now.

Surya Prakash Maguluri (Curapod): Yeah. So one is, like, when it... So there is wide... There are extensive studies which has happened on light therapy. Like, for example, if you look at antimicrobial resistance, even light therapy is even working in that zone as well. So whatever, like, in the longevity centers that you see across, all the long duty centers across the globe. Right? Even light therapy is even used in those, areas as well. But, technically, light therapy may... Like, what happens is, like, whenever any light is projected onto the human body. Right? Like, one is, it triggers lot of positive biochemical reactions. Like, one is it pushes more circulation to a particular area. It it enhances, it reduces inflammation and then also, alleviates pain and other conditions like that. So

Dhruv Sharma: Yeah. Surya, I'm I'm thinking that in order to actually put this in the hands of everyday people, you've had to miniaturize it. Right? Like, the thing with technologies like laser, you can use it, you know, to do corrective procedures, but in the wrong hands, it can also be very, very disruptive. My guess is the same thing is true of PBM. So what did you do to make it safe for home use for clinical use?

Surya Prakash Maguluri (Curapod): So one is, like, what we have done, Drew, is number one. Like, we, haven't gone, like, in using lasers as a therapy at home use device because we use LEDs, number one. At the same time, we made it safe by, whatever dose that we are going to use it on the him... Curapod. Right? Like, what we have done is we have done, animal studies even before, releasing the product into the market. So in animal studies, we have done photo, like, we've done photo by model. We have done a study where, biocompatible... It's called biocompatible studies. We... We've identified whether the light which is coming out of the device, is it causing any skin irritation? Or even in the cell cultural studies, may I, like, is it even causing any cytotoxicities or anything like that? And after that, like, we have done a human clinical trials. In the human clinical trials, we identified... For us, as a company, for us, safety comes first, efficacy second. Like, initially before launch of the product in the market, where we evaluated and established lot of safety studies around the product, like, on the humans, like, whether the device is causing any skin irritation, are there any side effects, are there any adverse effects. And not only that, like, today, the product is... Has got more than seven plus international safety certifications. The light, which comes out the Curapod, right, is as safe as light you're sitting under. It's called photobiological safety. So it is like we have to... Whatever dose that comes out of the Curapod is tested, whether it is safe on the human subjects or not. And after that, we started launching the product into market. So today, we have close to 60,000 plus, users, and every single... More than, 25 to 30,000 of Curapod sessions will turn on. Those many number of sessions, and then so far, we haven't seen any negative impact around Curapod so far.

Utsav Somani: And what are the use cases that you're seeing are, I mean, the most common? Like, I mean, pain management, you've launched something for females as well. So you're focusing on women health care also. Like, tell us about the different use cases that you've seen, across the community.

Surya Prakash Maguluri (Curapod): So one is, on the, light therapy, people are using light therapy for... Currently, like, as I've mentioned in the optogenetics, they're using for schizophrenia, Parkinson's disease. At the same time, people are using the product around antimicrobial resistance. At the same time, hair growth, maybe people are using. In longevity centers, people, the technology is widely accepted in longevity centers as well. Pain is... And, you know, we're working around the pain, and then, so these are a couple of applications that people are using light therapy around.

Sriram Velliyur (Curapod): So I'll add to that. So when we work a lot of physiotherapists. Right? So those... They... Those who are, you know, the subject matter experts, they really understand, the root cause of pain in people as part of their, you know, studies. And the same time, those that understand photobiomodulation,

Surya Prakash Maguluri (Curapod): they

Sriram Velliyur (Curapod): have leveraged Curapod for use cases beyond what we have done clinical trials for. Then we have a lot of physiotherapists who are using it even for, you know, for, you know, facial spasms and, you know, lock jaws and thick... Things like that as well. TMJ, so many other conditions as well. So there's something that we meet them. We're always, you know, pleasantly surprised to say, you know, hey. We are using it for conditions, and we'll actually tell you, you know, how how well you can use Keroport for for it beyond what you're doing right and what you guys have done. You build a great product. So there's a strong, you know, you know, synergies that is coming up. It's it's it's incremental where physiotherapist are coming forward and, you know, they're using Curapod in the... As part of their combination therapies along with what they use, in their, clinics, they're leveraging Curapod, and that's helping increase, the, the attack... The efficiency and the efficacy as also shortening the time, in terms of the relief that people are experiencing. This is something that we are actually discovering presently over the last few months.

Surya Prakash Maguluri (Curapod): And as a company, how... What we're trying to do in a case, like, if you look at, in the pain management space. Right? There are very few device across the globe which has got recorded pain management sessions. Like, is one amongst them. The device is not in release when today, we'll get to know, like, number of sessions turned on, like, for what are the conditions. Like, for example, knee pain, back pain, in the knee pain, like, how many... What are the time, during the day they are using the product and all. So Curapod is one... Very few device across the globe which has got close to million plus recorded pain management sessions, for multiple use case in human body.

Dhruv Sharma: You know, because I know so little about this, I'm getting increasingly curious about the science behind all of this. Right? Like, what does light therapy do at the cellular level that leads to these restorator... These regenerative effects?

Surya Prakash Maguluri (Curapod): So... Yeah. So for example, I'll talk in terms of pain management. For example... So this is my hand. So I'm trying to hit my hand with another one. So it means there is some clinical insult which has happened in this particular area. Sometimes the clinical insult might be external so that it's called trauma or injury or anything. Sometimes it might be internal. So internal means, like, for example, arthritis and other conditions like that. So when any clinical insult happen, like, when any clinical insult happens, the cells in that particular area will be under stress. It means, like, what is the function of a normal cell? The function of a normal cell, whatever food you take, whatever area you inhale, it has to be metabolized in the cell, and then it should be converted into energy, and that energy is utilized by the body. Any clinical insight happen, that particular process will be hampered. So what light therapy does is, number one, like, when any clinical cell happens, cell will be under stress. The lighter will regain, like, will excite the particular cell so that normal cellular respiration process will be regained so that more circulation will be going to that particular area so that cellular rejuvenation will happen so that restoration, whatever you're talking about, will happen. At the same time, when the due process, inflammation will also reduce and then pain pathway and other things will also be blocked. That's where the person gets pain relief, the cells gets rejuvenated, and then more circulation to be going to the particular area. That's how the light therapy actually functions through.

Utsav Somani: And, I mean, the device that I use at home, I just got an update, email from them. I think couple of months back, now they have a panel which has, like, blue light as well, yellow light as well for, like, sleep, something for even, killing bacteria, improving your skin quality. I mean, a bunch of different things as well. But how are you miniaturizing all of this into a small coin sized device? Because the thing is that... I mean, all the purest of red light therapy say that you need a specific dosage, a specific depth of the dosage coming inTONr skin. Like, it has to penetrate beyond a certain point. Right? So near infrared and infrared, like, those things, I think, matter a lot more. So how are you able to compact this technology? Is that something that you patented?

Surya Prakash Maguluri (Curapod): Yeah. That's our actual idea. So, like, in the next one month, we are coming up with adaptive pain management system. So what happens is, like, for example, you have mentioned. Right? So, like, so this is Curapod. Like, Curapod, like, any light therapy device is an external application device. So you've mentioned that you're using panels. So if you sit 15 centimeters away from panel or 30 centimeters away from the panel, the amount of light, the amount of dose that your body absorbs will be totally different. Now what we have done is, like, we made the device stick to the human body, and it is safe. Now... But still there are so many factors that can impact the absorption of light in the human body. For example, let's say, skin color, melanin content. Like, melanin content, like, for example, on the visible light region, melanin content, if the light gets absorbed, it converts into heat energy. Like, it's converted into thermal energy. In the near infrared light region, melanin will have a limited absorption. At the same time, BMI will have an impact on the absorption pain side. Like, for example, knee versus back versus heel region. Hill region may skin is very thick. Back may have to travel a little more. So now the light has the dose has to get adjusted according to the different body parameters, variables, etcetera etcetera. So now what we've done is we have made a system called adaptive pain management system where the device automatically adjusts the dose according to the personalized parameters that we have discussed about. So there are seven to eight parameters. We are the first device across the globe to come up with adaptive pain management system, and that's our IP. So we are launching this product in December, first week this this year.

Sriram Velliyur (Curapod): Another thing that adds to the effectiveness of the... Like you said, you know, the the depth of penetration. Right? Typical lightweight devices don't penetrate deep, and we have achieved the... Through our patent, you know, we have filed for the patent, penetration depth of up to six centimeters into the human body. That's why Kerapod works not just at the dermal level. It works right at the joint, deep tissue, and muscle level works for chronic conditions as well. Chronic pains are, you know, much below the surface of the skin. Right? So that's why Curapod is very, very effective in for chronic conditions like arthritis, frozen shoulder, you know, spondylosis or the conditions.

Dhruv Sharma: Well, six centimeter mean, six centimeters, you can get to the bone, I guess. That's actually quite a lot. Maybe talking a little bit about the commercial side of of of the business, who have you identified as early adopters and, you know, the eventual universe of users? What channels are you guys gonna use to get to them?

Sriram Velliyur (Curapod): So we initially started through the doctors. Right? So we had built a new category of wearable therapeutics. Right? Nothing like this before. So... And since we're in a space of wellness, right, we wouldn't call it traditional health care as a wearable. So we wanted strong endorsement from the, pain specialists like orthopedics and others. So once we did our clinical trials and got a regulatory approvals, we went and worked with extensive camps with a lot of orthopedics, and they started using CurePod on their patients. And then we got to see how they started use... All use cases where they start prescribing CurePods. But then what we saw was that from from our perspective, being able to execute through the doctors was not something that we felt we could do justice to, in a proper way. So we pivoted to d two c, and then we started selling online. Right? Our messaging resonated with people who are looking for solutions. Because if you look at the pain point of pain management today is that you don't have anything that is besides, pills. Right? That is clinically say proven or without side effects, inconvenient or to use on everyday basis. And that's the, place where Curapod comes in as a perfect fit, as a variable that has been clinically proven with no side effects per se that you can just use on the go. So it was... Made a lot of sense to go directly to consumers. Yes. We need to do a strong campaign as you've seen of creating awareness, educating people. And this is where we established the product per se across PAN India in terms of awareness. What we also start doing this, this has also given us, you know, created awareness for Cure for Cure but where physiotherapist are seeing it. So we went and met them. Right? So it's... Oh, we... When we started ex... Talking about the product, they did some trials with them. We started resonating with them also. So we're also diversifying offline through partnerships with senior living or wherever pain is a touch point on everyday basis for which there are no real solutions besides medication, right, and, physiotherapy. So this is where we are looking at senior living. We believe corporate pain wellness or workplace pain management is an area that is really intact. People really don't talk about it at work because talking about pain is a taboo. Right? It kinda makes look like you're weak and I'm offering excuses. So people don't talk about it. But then there's severe implications when you talk to orthopedics. Like, most of the people in cities like Bangalore, Hyderabad. A lot of their, customers are actually... Our patients are actually people from the IT sector with back pain, neck pain, carpal tunnel syndrome, and things like that. Really a segment that is really untapped. And a lot of these people are resonating to ads and buying them online. So we're looking to kind of get through through partnerships into all of these channels per se. Hard for... An active lifestyle recovery is a huge space. For example, is actually now the pain management... Official pain management partner for the Paralympics, the Indian team that's gone there. So that's a space that... Where we're getting a lot of, you know, traction as well. Sports officials coming forward to look at your report for recovery. So we believe that, you know, the use cases are many. There are different target personnel personnel that's out there, but most of them have the same condition but for different reasons. One could be degenerative as you age, another could be work style related, other could be activity related. So we are kind of identifying where the opportunities are in terms of where we can engage with our target audience and going through those channels and offline partnerships as well. And we will eventually get into retail space.

Utsav Somani: There's a question on YouTube from MKBHD. I hope not the real one. If he's checking out our channel, I think that's a fun thing. But we've got... Hey. I've got a question about Curapod. I've used it before, and it worked well. So kudos TON guys. But can it also work for my dad's sciatica? It's... I'm not... It's sciatica. sciatica. Okay. Sorry.

Surya Prakash Maguluri (Curapod): We have a, we have a lot of, people using the sciatica pain. Like, one is, in sciatica pain, usually what happens is, like, the pain would be concentrated in the lower back, but it also radiates to the thigh and other region. So so people have to place one product on the lower back, another one, on the place where it radiates. So that's how it shows impact. But one thing, on any chronic pain condition. Right? So there are a few people who react towards the device immediately, but there are a few people who will take a little more time to react, towards the device. So consistency is key, in using Curapod, and then that... And if you're consistent, the device will definitely show good results around the pain relief. So it has nothing to do with the condition or anything. But for pain relief, the device works definitely well.

Utsav Somani: Alright. Dhruv, any final closing question?

Dhruv Sharma: None from me. I think this has been quite a... Quite useful session. I'm gonna book mine, and, thanks thanks for joining us, guys.

Utsav Somani: Awesome, Sri. Surya, thank you so much for coming on TON, man.

Sriram Velliyur (Curapod): Thank you so much. Thanks.

Utsav Somani: Alright, listeners. We're moving to Scimplify. Dheeraj is, the second cofounder from Scimplify that we've had on the show. On t one one three four, we was talking to Sachin, who gave us a good lay of the land, but Dheeraj is here to, chat more with us. Dheeraj, welcome TON, Andy.

Dheeraj Dhingra (Scimplify): Hi, Utsav. Hi, Dhruv. Thank you for having me.

Utsav Somani: Congrats on your insights by Hitachi Ventures, and your customers are also investing. So what's really working, man? Customers investing, I think, is a big mode of confidence.

Dheeraj Dhingra (Scimplify): Definitely. I think, this is a major milestone in our journey. All three strategic investors, if you look at them, all three are 100 plus year old companies who have weathered the storm for more than a century, and they have invested in in in us. We are just a three year old company.

Dhruv Sharma: Yeah. Absolutely. And we had a great chat with, with Sachin about a month ago. Dheeraj, and, I I think... I I don't know if I'm wrong here, but this is the fastest returning company in the show simply because you guys, in the span of a month, got so much more done, including including that that mega round. Firstly, how does it feel?

Dheeraj Dhingra (Scimplify): We... It feels great. I think this is this is a great testament to the efforts that team has been putting in, the feedback, the responses we have been getting from globe... From customers globally and our partners globally. We are rooted as an Indian company. We are... But we are on the path to becoming a global company. So this is this is, just, I think, the next step towards it. We are just getting started.

Dhruv Sharma: Yeah. Maybe, you know, for those of us who are just only learning about specialty chemicals, I mean, we barely know anything about basic chemicals in here. We're gonna do an entire segment in specialty chemicals. Tell us, like, what global conditions have have, you know, come together to make what you guys are doing possible? What is this global, you know, patent cliff? The entire world almost looking for a second supplier and the role we may come to play in that. Talk us about those things, please.

Dheeraj Dhingra (Scimplify): Yeah. So there are certain, things which are happening globally which are blessings in disguise for us. All the geopolitical scenarios which are shaping up, the tariffs being, placed on multiple countries by large economies. They have resulted in a very simple phenomena today that everybody wants to derisk. Everybody wants to diversify. They don't want to be dependent on one country. Let's say they don't want their 90% of procurement to happen only from China. They want a secondary source, and they want to derisk and diversify in that way, which is actually enabling us to provide that solution and even a faster solution, I would say, as compared to the traditional industry standards. There used to be a time when it when it used to take months, years to develop a molecule and commercialize it. I think we are able to shorten that life cycle and provide not only price competitiveness, but also the risk diversification to our customers globally.

Utsav Somani: So Sachin was focused on r and d. He was doing Japan, US. What part of the company and the direction are you, focused on mostly?

Dheeraj Dhingra (Scimplify): So I'm spending... Actually spending a lot of time in US. I have been in US for last three months covering, I think 15 states in US in last three months, and I have I have met more than 100, customers in the last three months. And, US is a focus area for us as a company, but apart from US, Europe, Southeast Asia, and Japan also.

Utsav Somani: Any specific verticals that you're focused on? Like, defense, Semicon was, I think, a key pillar that you want to focus on as a company when we had such in. But now, apparently, those are big revenue streams for you already.

Dheeraj Dhingra (Scimplify): Yeah. So critical minerals, every country defines it in its own way. So you... India has 30 raw materials listed as critical minerals. US has about 60. European Union has about 34. Critical minerals is the talk of the town, which goes into semiconductors, AI, defense, aerospace. And that is one segment where you need ultra pure advanced materials. And we, as Sachin was speaking last time, we have been focusing on that and creating supply chains and creating commercial production, ecosystem for these products, and they have been paying paying off really well for us.

Dhruv Sharma: What are, like, the top five items, on the bomb of, an American specialty, materials buyer?

Dheeraj Dhingra (Scimplify): Okay. Good question. So...

Dhruv Sharma: Got it. It sounded a little bit like a general knowledge question here. It doesn't have to be five. It can be two. It can be seven, and we can talk about it through the course of the segment as well. But I'm super curious, like, what are what are the Americans importing or or buying from you that they don't have already? And how's it different from, you know, what what our local needs are, I think, is is what we're also trying to understand.

Dheeraj Dhingra (Scimplify): Sure. See, first of all, all the products that we deal in today are used in the products that you and I use on a daily basis. For example, let's take a very simple example. The phone that we we have in our hand for most of the day, has so many chemicals involved. So let me try and simplify it. So if you look at the camera of a phone, it has optical lens, which requires certain specialty chemicals to go in... Go into it for it to be able to perform in a certain way. It will have a coating so that if you drop your phone, it does not get scratches. It does not get hampered. Right? That also gets enabled by chemicals. It is fire resistant. So a certain flame retardant goes into production of the prod... The, plastic or the other components used in producing it. So from coatings, adhesive, sealants, elastomers to fire retardants, to, certain rare earth elements, all these chemicals go into production of that mobile phone that we use on a daily basis. Right? Now there are hundreds of manufacturers who play a role to produce, mobile phone that we use. We, as a company, are supplying, if not to all hundreds, at least to tens of these suppliers. So that's what we do, and the top five items would include, critical minerals for sure, which are ultra high priority products, case. We call it as a segment coatings, adhesive, sealants, elastomers, and various industrial, application products which go into, production of chemicals, which are used for multiple application to produce the products that we do on a... Do use on a daily basis.

Utsav Somani: The supply chain must be a key part of all of this, but I think manufacturing all of this, that you supply, TONr 100 plus suppliers for even a phone, I think, is just fascinating. So talk to us about the next set of manufacturing facilities coming online for you.

Dheeraj Dhingra (Scimplify): So so far, we have, created an ecosystem of manufacturing in Southeast Asia, primarily, India, Vietnam, Indonesia, Thailand, and Japan. Now we are focusing on expanding our base in US and Europe as well. We are going to invest in r and d... Setting up r and d based in US, having more manufacturing landscape in US and Europe, and, we'll be catering to customers globally from global manufacturing base.

Dhruv Sharma: And so that's in the manufacturing side of the business. On the research side of the business, Adi, I know you guys are a super young company, but are you already doing work on, I don't know, discovering new materials, or is that in the pipeline?

Dheeraj Dhingra (Scimplify): So I... I'll tell you an interesting insight. With all the geopolitical tensions and supply chains getting disrupted, now recycling has become, become, a major trend, which can enable newer supply chains and newer molecules. So the products which were being derived from virgin material so far are also... Have also become economically viable if you are, extracting those from the waste streams and you are recycling it. So that is something that we are focusing on. There is one particular product, tungsten based, whole value chain we have created from 100% recycled route in India, which practically did not exist till two years back. So Yeah. In two years, we have become the largest exporter of tungsten based products to 100% recycled route, and that supply didn't... Did not exist.

Dhruv Sharma: Yeah. I frankly can totally get behind that because every generation exploits the Earth's finite resources as if they're the last ones. Right? As if there's never gonna be anyone else who will need anything. So, yeah, I think all for insight.

Utsav Somani: Talking about tungsten, I think this is probably a good time to bring this up. There's this, thing where lab grown gold, I think, might be a possibility. It just it just might take too much mercury, too much energy. So it might not be financially feasible as an asset to create. Did you read about that, Dheeraj? The company that's, put out a paper and a video announcing this?

Dheeraj Dhingra (Scimplify): Yes. I have seen it. I I think it can be exciting times. We have seen it happening in diamond. Why not gold?

Utsav Somani: What is the science behind this? If you wanna, like, explain it to us.

Dheeraj Dhingra (Scimplify): I think whatever information that they have, put out, it seems feasible. It seems, practical that it can be done. The only thing that is yet to be figured out, the scale at which it can be done and how accepting it will be at, at an industry or at a society level. That needs to be figured out. But, yeah, seems like, they are onto something, and, it it can change the landscape altogether.

Utsav Somani: Apparently, you're applying, like, nuclear energy to, like, make mercury into gold, or something of that sort. That's what I read online. I mean, it's fascinating.

Dhruv Sharma: Yeah. But, like, I mean, we've, we have a long history of taking something that happens in nature, bringing it inside of a lab, and then, you know, what... Something that the... That naturally chemically takes a thousand years, do it within a few months and days. And lab lab grown diamonds are an entire industry born out of that. Our friends at AllCarbon explained to us how they, you know, take a natural process and then, that happens anyway, but, you know, kind of compress the timeline on which it takes place. So pretty cool stuff. Yeah.

Utsav Somani: Awesome. We probably got time for one final question to Dheeraj. Dhruv, anything?

Dhruv Sharma: It's so... Clearly, a very, very exciting couple of months. Dheeraj, what what, how... On what note are you guys gonna close this year? Now with, just a little over two months to go, like, what's the energy like inside of the company, raise?

Dheeraj Dhingra (Scimplify): I think everyone at Scimplify is pretty excited, on in... On what lies ahead. We are all in... We are going to multiple countries, attending trade shows, exhibiting at them, creating so many touch points. I think we have proven the concept, the ecosystem that we were trying to build in terms of the technology innovation, manufacturing at... In an asset like manner, and delivering to customers through cross border, supply chains. That model is proven now. We are going all in in creating more touch points, letting people know that, Scimplify is a company which is, enabling multiple... Multibillion dollar companies to do this. Henkel, Hitachi, and Technor are are testament to that that they have invested in us. So it's it's all about creating those touch points now and leveraging the ecosystem that we have built.

Utsav Somani: Yeah. Awesome. Congrats on the raise. Congrats on the 200,000,000 ARR, which is reported publicly, and I think you wanna double it to 400,000,000. And, also, I believe you were at the Zetwerk IPO today.

Dheeraj Dhingra (Scimplify): Yes. I am in Mumbai, actually. I was there when, the Zetwerk made a... Made debut on Dalal Street, and it was it was surreal. I think it will shape how b to b manufacturing startups are looked at with Zetwerk doing a 5,000 crore IPO. It's a... It's it's an amazing feeling for the whole startup ecosystem, and I think it will pave the way for all of us also to create much bigger outcomes from India.

Utsav Somani: Wishing you success on this journey. Thank you so much for coming on TON, Dheeraj.

Dheeraj Dhingra (Scimplify): Thank you for having me, Utsav.

Utsav Somani: Alright. Alright. Listeners, moving on to our final guest today. We've got Twitter famous people with us. They're extremely, extremely talented. So let's chat with them about what they've created. Darshita and Vikrant.

Vikrant Patankar (Composio): And what

Utsav Somani: what is...... Results also, I think. We'll cover that also, I think. Darshita, Vikrant, welcome to the UN.

Darshita Patankar (Wayground): Hi. Thank you so much for inviting us. We are really grateful for, coming to the show. And, like, yes. My brother is also here. He was a filmmaker, and it has been a lovely experience. On top of it, the response has been so good.

Utsav Somani: 5,000,000 impressions. That is insane.

Darshita Patankar (Wayground): I would have not even imagined it, but it it has been, like, an insane experience. Yes.

Utsav Somani: How long does it take to make a video like this? I mean, there's the creative side of things, but also execution side of things. So talk to us about that process, the timeline. How did you think about this? Like, take us behind the scenes.

Darshita Patankar (Wayground): Yeah. Sure. So, basically, I was making my portfolio as a designer. And, just like any other designer, I was, like, creating it using code and, experimenting it here and there. But I thought, what would set me apart? How different can I make my portfolio, how can I stand out? And that led me to thinking about who am I truly as a person, how authentically can I present myself? Even though portfolio is kind of a very commercial thing, you feature a lot of the works that you have done for other people, but here, if somebody wants to hire me for who I am as a person, how would that be? And then I ended up creating my own branding, and then I, you know, pitched this idea to Vikrant who, like, has been so helpful, like, directing it. And, yes, that is the result that you see. You can, like, you know, ask him more about his filmmaking experience as well.

Vikrant Patankar (Composio): Yes. First of all... Oh, so sorry to cut you in between. Yeah. First of all, thank you for having us, Dovain,. I just happened to drop... Like, happened to hop on this call, like, two minutes ago. But, yeah, I would love to share more bits and details. It first started with, of course, Darshita already had her design portfolio out there for, like, a year or so, which already featured things like a mirror ball, the the Barbie aesthetic. Even though she was not exactly going after the Barbie aesthetic, but, it was there. And, one of the early ideas was just to create a very simple pitch in public video. Like, last year, I made... I pitched myself in public to Farza on Twitter, which also went viral. It received, like, 60,000 views or something like that. So I was thinking of something similar for my sister that, you know, she should also have a video like that, especially in a year filled with, like, you know, full of anxiety because of AI. But what ended up happening was, it, like... But, like, the the thing with my sister is that she has these incredible ideas. So one day, she... We were just sitting in the HSR Bluetooth guy, and she just pitched me this idea that, hey, Vikrant. I wanna pitch myself like Mia does in La La Land. So Mia is one of the protagonists in the movie La La Land where she arranges a one woman play and she pitches herself in the public, like, you know, sort of like doing an open audition. And, I instantly started feeling that, you know, of course, it needs to be shot on anamorphic lenses. Of course, it needs to have that La La Land aesthetic as far as visuals and colors are concerned because Darshita's designs already are so vibrant, so colorful, so different from the usual monotonous or, like, the boring designs that come out of, let's say, AI. That was, like, the major inspiration. So kudos to this. Otherwise, if if she had had not pitched that idea to me, I would not have even thought about shooting on anamorphic lenses to begin with. But later on, like, maybe you can talk about the Barbie side of things, how Barbie came into the picture.

Utsav Somani: I love the sweatshirt that you're wearing. Odyssey and IMAX. It shows that you're a true connoisseur of the art.

Vikrant Patankar (Composio): Oh, I, happen to also have met greats of an olin. Wow.

Utsav Somani: Wow. Nice.

Vikrant Patankar (Composio): This is, like, 2018. Yeah.

Utsav Somani: Wow.

Dhruv Sharma: Yeah. No. I mean, firstly, Vikrant, you're you're just such a sweet, supportive brother. That's super heartening to see. And, I do have one question for you guys, which is... So my understanding is that Darshita, you you know, wasn't happy with everything people were saying about AI and design. And she clearly done great work, and she wanted to draw attention to her work. And so she decided to take the matter in her own hands, and, of course, she has a very talented brother in Vikrant, and the rest is history. Now there's always lots of people who are on the fence about putting themselves out there. You guys did that. It's it's worked out well. What do you wanna tell those people who might be on the fence about putting themselves out there today?

Darshita Patankar (Wayground): So so the thing with me is that it came out in the most honest and the most personal way. Like, I wouldn't have come up with a story like this if I did not feel it in person, if I did not see the people around me, like, you know, feeling it firsthand. So it is a very personal story to talk about yourself, like, opening about yourself. Like, it is very honest. And everything that came out just came out in form of rage. Like, I cannot even explain how rageful and anxious I was. Like, I had read a lot of, like, articles and every news that would just come up on Twitter now and then, and, it would just come up. People would forget, and then something would come up again and again people would forget. And I was like, this is kind of a cycle that just keeps happening and nobody's talking about it. And, and I was on top of it already pitch... Trying to think of pitching myself, so I thought maybe I can voice out what I actually really feel, like, what actually goes inside the mind of a designer. And, while also, like, you know... Because it's like a story, it is kind of like a film. We want the protagonist to go through a journey and have a very bad fall, then also, like, rise up again. So in those ways, also, we were trying to think how to, like, create a narrative around it. And all while also having the Barbie theme, the pink aesthetic, the very, like... Even though everything is very, post apocalyptic, the theme and the beautification is just very beautiful to look at. So we were trying to play around those themes, the contrast, and stuff like that. Well, to answer your question, like, what do I have to say to people? I just I just wish people could just be, like, you know, put themselves out, like, listen to their own voice, like, what they feel. And a lot of people, like, commented that I also want to, like, create something like that. Like, you know, that really made me so happy. Like, a lot of people, like, relate to it and also, like, want to do something like this. Like, it cannot just be, like, a video. It can be anything wherein, you, strongly resonate with and just speak about it. Like, be yourself. Like, you know, discover yourself. A lot of, like, things related to identity comes into picture, personal brands. So, yeah, those were the things we were playing around with.

Vikrant Patankar (Composio): But one one important thing over here in this genre of pitching yourself in public is everything boils... Boils down to audacity. Like, people need to... Even if people need to, like, let's just speak up about something that, hey, something is not working or... Hey, something is wrong. This video was not supposed to be just a hiring video that, hey, I'm open to hire. I'm open to work or whatever. This was literally a video essay. That's how I see it. This was literally a brand film. This is this is literally what like, you know, standard, like, Darshita's ethos presented visually, presented cinematically. I just took her website. I just took her existing brand and personified it and gave it, like, just made it three-dimensional in a physical space. That's why we hired a production designer. That's why we had got a TOP on board. That's why we wanted to basically communicate this idea, this argument. Maybe Darshita can speak about the argument more because a lot of people did not pay attention to the argument. They just paid attention to the glamour of the video. I I think that's what happens in the in the... In in this world. But I don't......

Utsav Somani: Always be some haters online. Like, anything that you put out, there always be some negative comment. If there are non negative comments, then you're probably not doing, something audacious enough.

Vikrant Patankar (Composio): Yeah. Yeah. So... Exactly....

Dhruv Sharma: That's something interesting in what Vikrant is saying that there's always layers in these things, and you have to look at them for what

Vikrant Patankar (Composio): they are. It was... Like, everything was deliberately planned and engineered. Like, each and every word you hear in that video was engineered to to perfection that every word should make someone feel something, be it good or bad. That was the intention. And, the the video's run time is, like, what, four minutes ten seconds, and I tried my best to compress everything in a sweet way possible to package it so that it doesn't feel like you have watched, like, a four minute video.

Utsav Somani: No. No. I mean, it's super nice. Like, how many inbounds did you get? Like, I mean, Vikrant, I'm guessing now the... Christopher Nolan will call you again for his next film. But how many inbounds did you get, Darshita?

Darshita Patankar (Wayground): So, like, my DMs have been so flooded. I had to set up a cloud agent.

Utsav Somani: Design is not dead. AI.

Darshita Patankar (Wayground): Yes. So, yeah, I... I'm so grateful for the response....

Utsav Somani: Unexpected reach outs? Like, I mean, say... I don't know. The founder of Figma reached out TON or something like that.

Darshita Patankar (Wayground): I mean, founder of Figma, founder of Linear, they were all, like, you know, in the comments. They were so, so, so, like

Utsav Somani: Oh, wow.

Darshita Patankar (Wayground): Whatever. Yeah. Like, Linear founder follows me, and I was...

Vikrant Patankar (Composio): Oh, yeah. Linear founder followed her, and, I'm like, damn. This is something like a tech bro's dream. You know?

Darshita Patankar (Wayground): So it... Then, like, when it comes to, like, inbound, I have, like, received a lot of, like, opportunities, even, like, you know, brand collaborations and stuff like that. So I feel like, when I say that this is not just a brand film, it's like, pitching yourself out in public, a... Like an introduction for yourself. So it kind of, like, shoots many shots at the same time. So... Yeah.

Dhruv Sharma: Because we need comments for him from Nolan and Spielberg and I got it.

Darshita Patankar (Wayground): I don't know.

Dhruv Sharma: Tom Hanks and everyone else.

Darshita Patankar (Wayground): Right. I I would love to. This is the first time I designed a title card for my movie, and that felt so good. Like, being so creatively,

Utsav Somani: Like a proper creative outlet.

Darshita Patankar (Wayground): It... Yeah. To even design a title card. So I'm... Yeah. Definitely, I'll design anything for Vikrant.

Vikrant Patankar (Composio): Let... Then not just the, like, the title card design. She ended up designing everything in the movie, right, from the newspaper to the stamp design to the card you see on on the video because I was like that, hey. Let's just save some time. I can just cook something on Claude Code or codex, and I'll generate the card myself or I'll generate and, like, over, like, two months of planning and making this entire thing. And she was very adamant that, hey. This is my movie. We are not using generative AI.

Darshita Patankar (Wayground): I mean...

Vikrant Patankar (Composio): So we basically felt the same argument throughout the entire making of this movie, which is about the argument.

Darshita Patankar (Wayground): Yeah. So I was like, if we are, like, you know, if we are setting a high bar, let us just take some time, put in a lot of hard work and effort, and make the best of, what we have. So, yeah, I did not wanted to compromise in any any point. Like, even, like, two hours before uploading it, I was like, maybe my voice over is not good over here. Can you change it? So... Yeah.

Vikrant Patankar (Composio): Oh, yeah. We were fighting over the aspect ratio because, like, cinemascope is too wide for many audiences... For many modern audiences on the Internet. And I was like, no. We are gonna stick to Cinemascope for Twitter, but let me just try to cook something about last minute. So we cropped and readjusted the entire thing for 16 is to nine for Instagram and for LinkedIn.

Utsav Somani: Guys, this was fun. Thank you so much for coming, and, I mean, educating us about this new art form that you guys put out, on Twitter this week. Thank you so much.

Darshita Patankar (Wayground): Thank you. Thank you so much for your time.

Vikrant Patankar (Composio): Thank you so much, Utsav.

Utsav Somani: All the best, Darshita and Vikrant. Alright, Dhruv. That's it from us, Triad. For this Friday, you have some news items to cover?

Dhruv Sharma: Yeah. Zetwerk IPO because Oh, yeah. Guest was actually there. And then, of course, I think the day two and the final day for bids for geo platforms, which I think lists next week, twenty eighth.

Utsav Somani: Next week.

Dhruv Sharma: And they're heavily, heavily oversubscribed.

Utsav Somani: 10 x or 11 x, I think.

Dhruv Sharma: Yeah. That's true.

Utsav Somani: And, apparently, it's the most... I mean, the number of bids have exceeded any other IPO in the world in the world, not just India. It's the... Literally the most, I mean, so many eyeballs on this, bell, which is gonna ring for this IPO. They've done a big campaign as well. Like, whenever you're traveling even on this road to get our geo, men, and I... Like, a lot of campaigns are also happening for this.

Dhruv Sharma: Yeah. Did you see a lot of them in Mumbai?

Utsav Somani: Yeah. Yeah. They're all over they're all over, dude. Yeah. Awesome. That's it from us. We'll see you on Monday. Thank you so much for tuning in. Have a wonderful and a safe weekend. Bye bye.

Dhruv Sharma: Thank you for joining us.