Full Transcript

Utsav Somani: Alright listeners, today it's just me heading into the long weekend, my co-host is not feeling that well. I think it's all the rain that's happening in Delhi Gurgaon, but we've got an exciting lineup for you today. We'll cover some big news items on Monday, some of the discussion points that are jammed with Mandrava Returns, but a couple of things that you should notice, Dipinder Goyal is now finally handing over the reins to Albindar, he wants to focus on other ventures. 100 million in ESOPs that were unvested will be not utilized by him. And there's another big fintech and a bank deal that was announced, Brex was acquired by Capital One for 5.15 billion. Brex was valued at 12.3 billion when they raised in 2022 and they've raised around 1.5 billion. This acquisition is 50-50 split across cash and stock. Exciting. I mean, good for the early investors and maybe some liquidation preference kicks in for the later investors. But these are two things that you should notice. We'll cover things like the A16Z market report, the Davos Elon Musk talk and a few other things when we return back on Monday. It's a Republic Day, but we'll be streaming a special 50th episode just for you. But before that, let's welcome our first guest, Arjun Singh. He's built a cult brand and he's also recently announced his new fundraise. And he's coming on Showtime tonight. So Arjun, welcome to the show. Lots happening for you today.

Arjun SIngh - Co-founder, Gully Labs: Yes, thanks Vatsal. Yeah, like a lot of a lot of stuff happening.

Utsav Somani: That's on the new milestone. 30 crore CDZ raised from Sama Capital and Zeropal Bipin is also a close friend as well. So you've got solid hands guiding you. But tell us about the company and the brand in your words.

Arjun SIngh - Co-founder, Gully Labs: So Gully Labs, you know, when it started, it wasn't a VC backed company. There was no presentation. It was born mostly out of the pain that somehow, you know, in India did not feel that India was cool or aspirational. I think that was the underlying element. And then and then we, you know, then the whole journey happened, right? We saw that folks were lining up for sneakers. Sneakers had such rich detail, design, storytelling, narrative. And for a lot of guys, guys will probably spend money on shoes, cars and gadgets, right? It was such a core part of at least me going upright on basketball courts or like just wearing casual shoes in schools and whatnot. So it kind of felt super disingenuous that, you know, no one was able to sort of take the rich growing up experience of someone in India with all the cultural artifacts that we have and make something that was just really cool, iconic, aspirational, global, you know, all of those words. I think that was the vision. And that's the vision that sort of continues is like, how do we make India cool for Indians, for the world? How do we take such a rich, you know, tapestry of, you know, narratives, design languages and like really put it on sneakers and like other contemporary objects and sort of make a brand with it. Right. And that's been the journey. And, you know, just have had a lot of fun doing it.

Utsav Somani: And where is the name inspired from? Valley Labs.

Arjun SIngh - Co-founder, Gully Labs: There are a lot of different versions, but I think the name just came and we were never able to like let go of the name. Like we even tried to change the name very early in the start. But, you know, like now, like the name just stood for a lot of different ways. We wanted something that was like intrinsically like scream Indian, but also be like very global at the same point of time. Right. So if you say Valley Labs in Delhi, in Bombay, in a sort of, you know, town like Ludhiana or Jaipur, but also say it in London or New York, it just rolls off the tongue. Right. And Valley as in like just really a throwback to, you know, everyone sort of, you know, journey to growing up in Indian labs as in like you wanted to be like super opinionated and experimental and whatnot.

Utsav Somani: At some point, I suggest you do a collab with Gully Labs, Gully Gang as well. Gully Boys. That movie was iconic.

Arjun SIngh - Co-founder, Gully Labs: We've spoken to them a few times. Yes, yes.

Utsav Somani: I mean, so you wrote a manifesto and you've spoken about pretty much what you've written. I mean, and spoken about on the show as well. You've written how you would like Indian sneakers to be represented on the global stage. Or an Indian brand to be recognized globally because you have these iconic brands. Like, I mean, I don't know, Instagirls, like, I mean, Jordans or Yeezys, which have captured the attention of sneaker lovers across the world. So 25% of your sales also come from international markets. How's that journey been?

Arjun SIngh - Co-founder, Gully Labs: It was super organic and like super like it just happened by itself. And since then, it's not stopped. I think if I retro why that happened is, you know, I'll just take one sort of meta step back, you know, each like if you look at brands like let's say IKEA, right? And IKEA espouses a Scandinavian design language. And now that's a global thing. You know, they started with something. They had an inside basis where, you know, the IKEA founders probably grew up. I don't know. Like, I'm not an expert. But then they were able to sort of make that design language global, right? If you go into interest, you kind of see that happening, right? Okay. Scandinavian design is a thing, right? It was like it was a thing for the longest amount of time. Similarly, like what we're trying to do is not sort of just copy paste something Indian on a shoe, right? Like, but try to distill what makes an Indian design language super Indian. And then share that story, share that narrative via sneakers and, you know, some of the apparel stuff that we're getting into. And once you start doing that, you end up creating something that is unique, but also has a very strong sort of recall and emotional throwback to people, right? And when you make good products, then that story, that narrative is fresh. It is new. And frankly, like a massive open space, right? No Indian consumer brand has ever leveraged a sort of Indian design element into contemporary objects. We've had like great stuff with like gemstones, with like RVs and whatnot. But hey, like the whole sneaker world and so much of the contemporary wearable consumer world is like untapped. So I think that is the massive opportunity. And Gallilabs was able to put it and when it showcased itself, you know, like we are very heavy on content. I mean, just like you guys and content flows and, you know, it goes to people who are seeking it. So that was super natural. And that's how we got inroads out of India.

Utsav Somani: And I mean, could you mention one of the brands? I think, I mean, just Indian brands going global. I think Nikhil Kamath posted about Indian brands as well going global. I think he posted about Sapco and a few others also. Sapco, I think, I mean, given that your brand and the language, I think it feels very, I mean, Sapco feels like a very close, this thing, like your brother from the coffee world basically.

Arjun SIngh - Co-founder, Gully Labs: No, 100%. We're very close to Sapco. In fact, our Delhi flagship store in Panchsheel Park has a Sapco coffee shop inside it. And we really, really admire sort of everything that they stand for, how they message, how they share stuff. And I think Sapco, Gali Labs are like, I would say an emerging theme or trend of just brands, just really claiming an Indian design system. And brands exist beyond design, right? Espousing that quality, espousing that trust, espousing the consistency so that, you know, you can just really feel that everywhere you go in the world.

Utsav Somani: Nice. And you've spent time in the world of investment banking, venture capital with Antler and then Ondag. So why this love for design? How did you inherit this love?

Arjun SIngh - Co-founder, Gully Labs: See, I'm an entrepreneur, you know, after my banking career, I, you know, I did the Antler program in Australia and then had a startup there. That entire journey taught me that, you know, I want to be a founder. That is my calling, right? And with that seed in mind, when I was back in India, I was looking for things to sort of do, right? So I don't think it was like, hey, let me make a design first or something. I wanted to make a really enduring consumer company, right? And with that thought in mind, I think Gali Labs just happened at one step after the other. Like, if you go back to the vision, that is where it all started. And once you start solving it, we became a manufacturer, we became a designer, we became a content creator. And everything we do stands to really push Gali Labs all over the world.

Utsav Somani: Yeah, I think it's clear in your manifesto on the website and the, I mean, the exponential store. We'll talk about that in a minute. Like, I think story, content, design, I think it all comes together in a brand, especially like yours and Subcorp, which have to resonate with these mission driven consumers of the new age, right? Who will become like these early adopters and cheerleaders for the brand. But tell me a little bit about designing your store experience in Panchsheel. That store is phenomenal. The whole pop-up outside the name board, I think, is pretty cool.

Arjun SIngh - Co-founder, Gully Labs: Yeah, no, we did not want it to be weak or vague. We wanted to be super opinionated like the brand is. And our first physical space really had to espouse all of that, right? So us having the entire facade to work with, you know, just really allowed us to make that statement. And, you know, our physical stores are an extension of the brand and the personality. So we wanted folks to have the full experience, wanted people to spend time. And we work with so many communities on a grassroots level. So we needed to have a third space to sort of bring people together, right? And we've sort of continuously done that over weeks, you know, ever since we've launched. So again, you know, culture does not exist in isolation. It needs to be where people are. You can't just be sitting online and like writing culture and typing on your keyboards, right? It's where people are. You've got to meet where they are, right? Which is why our experiential sort of flagship store espouses all of these things. An extension of the brand, our voice and a place for people to come together. And, you know, that's why we have a coffee shop as well in it.

Utsav Somani: You would love to come maybe this weekend. But how much, I mean, so extension of your brand and it drives sales and also connection with the brand as well. But what percentage of your sales are in store versus online?

Arjun SIngh - Co-founder, Gully Labs: So with one store that we had in December, you know, we have a few sort of multi-brand presence as well. But it was about 15% of our total sales came from our store in December, which is, you know, yeah.

Utsav Somani: Nice. And now let's break down. I mean, just for my understanding as well of the sneaker landscape in India, like where do you land? I mean, suppose a person is buying a thousand rupee sneaker versus say somebody is buying like a 50,000 rupee, I don't know, some expensive limited edition Yeezys, if they're still in existence. So where do you think the Indian consumer and the gap that you feel exists? What's the plan? Where is Galileo fitting into that picture?

Arjun SIngh - Co-founder, Gully Labs: No, that's a very good question. See, people who want to buy great shoes know that, you know, good shoes are an intricate object and it costs money, right? Anyone who's buying a 1500 rupee shoe also knows, who's aware, who's like a sneaker buyer knows that they're compromising somewhere, right? It's the same thing like you can't buy an iPhone for half the price because that is not what you get, right? And still iPhone sales are soaring in the country every year on year. So, you know, a lot of our consumers either care about sneakers or care about the brand Galileo Labs and that's how they really sort of end up coming to us and sort of experiencing the whole journey, right? And when you ask about the gap, right, like I would again sort of go back to these points because we've had people really early in their careers with like a very non-traditional sneaker head background really buy us because they really get what we're saying. We like to call them the original sneaker heads, right? Anyone who's buying like an Air Force One lookalike is probably a sneaker head trying to fulfill the aspiration that they can't get an Air Force One. But with our designs and how we position ourselves, we end up converting people that we call original sneaker heads from India, original Indian sneaker heads.

Utsav Somani: Because when, I mean, when does a person become a sneaker head? When they're 10? When they're 20?

Arjun SIngh - Co-founder, Gully Labs: When they look at sneakers as a way of expressing themselves, it is no longer a commodity item that will just cover your feet, right? It either says something about what you think and feel, your value system, or it says about what you want to convey to other people and it becomes a medium of self-expression. If like we're not selling sneakers like a commodity, otherwise you can just put a cardboard on your feet and walk around, right?

Utsav Somani: Well, like a form of expression. Sorry, you were explaining the landscape.

Arjun SIngh - Co-founder, Gully Labs: Yes, so those are the folks that end up really getting to us and this original Indian sneaker head is, these folks could never really get to like, what does a, you know, Jordan in Tokyo 95 mean, right? Because it is away from them, even though it's a great shoe, great brand, everything. But say when we put our Kulfi collection out there, or let's say when we put the Buran Shed that is inspired by all the imagery from Himachal and launched by someone from Himachal, it really connects to them and just sort of makes sense. And the same sneaker, then when we put it internationally and all around the globe, it allows people to experience the sort of design language that India has to offer, right? So anyone who's like super early in their career, maybe in school as well, they'll ask their parents, all the way to someone doing their second job, all the way to someone's dad who comes to the store and experiences it. Like all of these people are our buyers, you know, from a VC landscape, you know, like you might say, is this focus, not focus, but I would say it's people who either care about the brand or care about shoes.

Utsav Somani: Nice. Where are you spending 30 crores?

Arjun SIngh - Co-founder, Gully Labs: To open more stores, to be where our customers are, like if I just really sum up where we're going to spend the money is to be where they are, be it offline next to their homes, be it in their use cases, right? Hey, I don't want to buy a sneaker. I actually want to buy a chappal, right? So who's making like extremely interesting chappals, right? Or I want to buy something for movement, you know, I just don't want a casual shoe. So we want to be there where our consumers are from a sneaker and adjacent world and be close to them and give them the experience that, you know, they should experience.

Utsav Somani: Any cool collabs coming up?

Arjun SIngh - Co-founder, Gully Labs: Actually, yes, we have a few in the pipeline. We have an international one with a musician based in Brooklyn and, you know, his name is KOD, K-O-A-D. And, you know, you should check out his song called Deepika. It is on Deepika Padukone and that guy's a vibe. And yeah, he's going to come to India and like we're going to do a whole collab. So that's the next one of the ranks.

Utsav Somani: And if we're tuning into Shark Tank tonight, what can we expect?

Arjun SIngh - Co-founder, Gully Labs: You can expect a lot of fun. But no, it's basically us sharing the story and like just letting the world know, you know, about what we're up to. But yeah, please check it out. 7 p.m. on Sony Live and, you know, all the other places.

Utsav Somani: Awesome. All the best, Arjun. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Arjun SIngh - Co-founder, Gully Labs: All right. Thanks. Thanks. What's up? See you guys. Bye bye.

Utsav Somani: Yes. All right, listeners, our next guest, a close friend of ours, Sunil. Welcome to the show.

Sanil Sachar - Partner, Huddle ventures: Hey, nice having you. Looking forward to this one itself.

Utsav Somani: I'm sure. Yeah, Dhruv is not feeling well. So unfortunately, you're stuck with me. So let's get down to it. Tell us about Huddle Ventures. The listeners who are hearing about Huddle Ventures for the first time. Portfolio, investments. What have you done with your partner, Ishaan?

Sanil Sachar - Partner, Huddle ventures: Yeah, so Ishaan and I set up Huddle Ventures as a fund that focuses on backing founders in the earlier stages. We like to believe we're stage specialists. We like coming in at pre-seed or seed. The last fund, fund one, fund two is always focused on backing companies and leading or coleading the rounds. We like going very deep with these companies, right? And then to the tune of really helping them hire, really helping them figure out what their branding strategy should be. Think of us like the people at the pit stop in an F1 race. Really helping them refuel and restrategize till they win the race. We've always been consumer heavy investors, you know, from backing companies that are building kitchenware like Humanco to, you know, what you're hopefully sipping, which should be a blue tukai, I would hope, to, you know, a board care catering towards sexual wellness or a perfora and oral care. We try taking over the journey of a consumer, right? The optimum day is they wake up, brush with our products, cook with our products, wear a pant project and sip a blue tukai. But over and above that, we believe in patterns. You know, we've realized that the one pattern is following and working with the best founders who want to build foundationally strong, long-term companies. The second is building patterns that help us graduate to what should our next investment be. And that's really where we've gone into focusing on supply chain, the gaps in cold chain with backing companies like Celsius Logistics to what I was hearing Arjun talk about, you know, enabling offline through Lightstore, which is our portfolio helping you expand offline. And for that matter, Aussie, which goes into the whole new age parent market, which, you know, you and many of us will relate to, which is catering towards the baby and kids segment with quick commerce as a vertical.

Utsav Somani: And tell us about the early days of Huddle Ventures. I think you were incubating companies as well, if I'm not mistaken.

Sanil Sachar - Partner, Huddle ventures: Yeah, no, you're absolutely correct. You know, like I was mentioning, stage has always been, our obsession has been operating and our obsession has been in coming in as early as early can be. The last, the next three investments that should be announced, two of them are prelaunch and incidentally, so is another one that we've committed to. So we used to incubate, but what we recognized is to go deeper, you have to structure yourself for your founders. And that's really where we structured, you know, all our funds and you've known the journey, you know, close and upfront, in fact, and that's where we recognize let's just structure across our funds. Let's structure, you know, an opportunities vehicle that can go a little deeper in companies where our work is, you know, still beginning. And that's really where fund one, two, and numerically the third one came in.

Utsav Somani: But I mean, a lot of the, I mean, investors who've come on the show, they've described founders and the characteristics that they look for, like in your words, like, I mean, do you have an internal, like, I mean, Ghalil has put out this manifesto about the brand, but like, do you think investors, like you have an internal manifesto or things that you look for when you discuss a company or a founder in the investment committee meeting?

Sanil Sachar - Partner, Huddle ventures: Yeah, so there are certain traits that we've seen are similar across all our founders that are doing an exceptional job. And then actually, there are three. One is, they know how to attract talent. And that is actually the first, they know how to hire people that want to work in the most ambiguous day. So they're hiring epic teams as early as when that ESOP value is nothing. But the vision, the game plan is enough, their ability to instill trust and also delegate. So that's one of the team, the people management. The second is people and founders who are absolutely quick at iterations, you know, so they don't get fixated about a problem. And they're not also trying to solve 100 things in one go, because you can never really tell which data set is correct and which is incorrect. So really quick at figuring out when to move on. And then the third is, frankly, for me, it's a trait among sports people. It's a trait among the best founders. It is absolute obsession of just constant, you know, one could say this is incorrect, but I love it where you always are analyzing like, what can I do to get better? You know, that one more push up, that 0.1% improvement. And that comes with, you know, this obsession where I've heard my founder saying, we wake up at three in the morning, write on a notepad and go to sleep, right? You've heard these stories over and over again. And I think the third element grows, while it is innate, it also grows if you put your founders, might I say, in a huddle with other founders and say, what gets you driven? Like, what gets you to that day zero moment every time? Because, you know, you've seen this journey I have, we can never let complacency set in. So the third is never letting complacency set in to the journey. And I think these are three traits.

Utsav Somani: And if you were to give a shout out to any founder from your company, I mean, sorry, your portfolio, who evolved, like you've seen them closely since that day zero, I'm sure all founders have been through that journey. But somebody's trajectory that has impressed you the most recently?

Sanil Sachar - Partner, Huddle ventures: I want to pick many more, but if I pick two, I'll give you two contrasting points. One is, you know, the journey of Boldcare. Genuinely, the way they've been able to build in a category that is extremely, extremely difficult to build in. They've built trust, they've built it with extremely strong stability. And the way the founders have evolved into being, you know, at once they were the least funded. And I'm not saying funding was, is a, the amount of funding is not a, is not a correlation to your success. But with the least amount of funding, the impact they've made and how they've moved towards their competition.

Utsav Somani: I remember the competition you did with Ranbir Singh, right? I think Tanmay Bhat's agency executed that.

Sanil Sachar - Partner, Huddle ventures: Exactly. Epic, right? I mean, I think they really, like their name suggests, are able to take those bold decisions. I mean, a business of their nature should be taking them. And they, they have really grown to recognize what their brand stands for, or their culture. Again, what Arjun was really referring to, right? Owning who you are. What I've loved about them is the kind of team that they've built over time, you know, as founders, the way they've stuck to their own roles, the way they've been able to delegate to the first quality. And frankly, stick to first principles, right? It's very easy to get fixated by creating extremely strong numbers as a top line. But they were always cognizant that a business of this nature, for it to truly be a legacy business should be able to have the right distribution, right margins. And then let's figure out revenue. And frankly, that trifecta that they've created is incredible. The second one, and it's a very, very short journey so far, but I can see this playing out phenomenally as Aussie. I was mentioning it, I think the way Amit and the team set their goal from day zero and we back them alongside, you know, the great folks at Bloom when it wasn't anything like it was setting up a team. But the, but the wedge of saying, we're not going to do anything new till our repeat reaches a certain rate. You know, that fixation about your one goal, like, and that, I think that quality of, you know, in a human, you can call it zib or obsession or whatever it is. That's a very important and why I believe that's important because it correlates to repeat only comes if someone, if your consumer trusts you, and I can see this compounding because of business of their nature will expand once you replicate the pin codes around our country. But he recognized that by just putting a KPI of saying repeat needs to be X and they've met it and how they have overexceeded it. I can keep going on. I'm seeing the same in Asaya, but I'll take a pause without mentioning all my.

Utsav Somani: Because I also, I mean, we discussed vertical quick commerce companies on the show. Long back, I think when I think somebody put out a report, I think Alari put out a report. Why? I mean, why are vertical quick commerce companies needed? Like, do you think the horizontal plays will not have that will not be able to serve a certain categories or long tail of customers? What's the dying need for these companies to exist or that vertical quick commerce plays to exist?

Sanil Sachar - Partner, Huddle ventures: Firstly, I think it's a need being created. I can really get pushed back on this one. It's concreting for me to say it's a need that is being created. Will there be a vertical requirement in every domain, some that have got funded in other areas? I don't think so. Why we have taken a position in the parent wallet, which is for kids and babies is because we've recognized that if you look at what quick commerce does, which is providing products at any hour, as a parent, the requirement of a product can come at any hour. It could come at 12am, 2am. So firstly, it's to be able to cater to exactly what your products are having the right assortment at the right time. So here, urgency is needed. The second is it's a massively high repeat cohort you're catering to. Thirdly, it's a trusted assortment. So in a horizontal case, you might only have where your margins are working or where the brands might pick and choose what they want to put here. You can have the best brands and each of their products because now your warehouse is only built for that one consumer cohort. And the fourth is the LTV is phenomenal and how these businesses are going to grow brands is going to be better than any other commerce, quick commerce platform simply because in catering to a parent, the parent is trusting the brand on the other end. They probably are not going to go to a white labelled alternative because for them, this is very result oriented. I can't say the same for any other verticalized platform being created. Services maybe not in products.

Utsav Somani: And given that you're involved so early on in the journey of like these consumer brands and involved with the whole consumer investing world as well, what are the industries that you've seen are primed for like growth in 2026, 2027? Or yeah, where do you think like Huddle will be most excited to invest in?

Sanil Sachar - Partner, Huddle ventures: So yeah, I think that it's for us, we are extremely bullish on brands that have a very, very strong foundation on R&D. You know, R&D, I'm not saying, I'm not trying to insinuate that we are a label reading country, only very few of us right now on this conversation might be. But I think R&D is very important, simply because when you look at a cumin co and the kind of IP we're trying to create in kitchenware that instills trust to a very new investment we're investing, which is trying to create the athletic greens in India. They're focusing on strong R&D because again, result oriented brands, I feel are the future. The second is in health. I think there's still a very, very large gap in single speciality in certain domains. For us, that's oncology as a segment, creating a really strong value chain at a center, which is catering not to people who go to a Max or a Fortis and not someone that goes to an AIMS. There's still a very and also creating it across tier two, tier three, India and within tier one. So you know, companies like Oncare in our portfolio are moving towards that. I think health, wellness, and I'm personally biased towards that I've always been interested in that. But enablement, right, so I'll pause with that. I think because there's so much consumer demand, I think, you know, be it cold chain with Celsius logistics, or even other retail shops that are going to come up, I think we're going to see the enablement stack growing massively. But hey, we can't do it all. So I hope my peers take that on.

Utsav Somani: No, no, I mean, you've built a solid portfolio. You've I mean, given us the crystal ball gazing stuff also, but tell us the biggest missus. Like, I think a lot of people have this portfolio. So industries or companies that you missed out on?

Sanil Sachar - Partner, Huddle ventures: Oh, man, the list. How long do we have? So I think snitch. Firstly, I love what Siddharth's doing. I think he's built a phenomenal company. That would actually be a very large one, because I think it's a space that we understand really well. I think that's a big miss. We have missed a few in the EV stack. I think the folks at, you know, Electric Pay are doing very well. We're not the right folks in hindsight to today say we should have done it then. But I think in the EV, which is a very challenging stack, we're doing very well. And, you know, I can go on.

Utsav Somani: I think in our private conversation, you clearly accepted that EV is a space that you don't understand much about. You don't have the inclination to build that solid.

Sanil Sachar - Partner, Huddle ventures: Yeah, and I think that's very important in the journey of before you double down, what you do is to first let go of the cargo you don't want. And you can't, you know, service. And another venture I think is going to do really well, which we missed out on is Zillow. Speaking of vertical quick commerce, I think they're going to emerge really well. This is Zillow? They're in fast fashion. They're a vertical quick commerce for fashion, like Slick out there. And I think that team is exceptional.

Utsav Somani: Yeah, the founder was well.

Sanil Sachar - Partner, Huddle ventures: Yeah, yeah.

Utsav Somani: Fascinating world, man. Like I think getting fashion deliveries within 60 minutes. I think that's a game changer. I think we are in the space now.

Sanil Sachar - Partner, Huddle ventures: Yeah, but you know, the way I look at many of these specifically in fashion, they're going to develop way more than just a quick commerce platform. We can foresee them becoming brick and mortar businesses, whether they want to admit it or not. That's really where a value chain of the user will go. And I think lastly, I think a venture that will do really well, which is still early, but I think they're going to do exceptionally well is Unisol. They're building a mini so 2.0 for the country.

Utsav Somani: It's basically this Korean chain, right? Where you get, I mean, it's like a reformed version of dollar store, like where you get like whole, I mean, clean products and a whole wide assortment, right?

Sanil Sachar - Partner, Huddle ventures: A whole wide assortment. Exactly. Yeah, you were way better than I could. It's like the dollar store.

Utsav Somani: All right. Awesome. So where in the fund investment cycle are you now?

Sanil Sachar - Partner, Huddle ventures: We were definitely, we have a very busy year ahead. We started it with an investment and one more. As of this week, we will make eight new investments from the fund. We have ample amount of appetite to double down in some of our companies, considering the up round ratios that we have. And then the opportunities fund will selectively go deeper in ventures. So our hands are full.

Utsav Somani: Awesome. Excited for what you do at Huddle in 2026. Where can founders find you?

Sanil Sachar - Partner, Huddle ventures: I mean, having a coffee with you in Vasant Vihar. Otherwise on LinkedIn, over email. I think like you, we're very quick at responding at email. So always there at the founders of Huddle.

Utsav Somani: All right, Sanil. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Have a wonderful long weekend. Cheers. Cheers. You too. See you. Bye-bye. All right, folks. Our final set of guests for the show today. We've got Piyush and Khushboo. Let's welcome them to the show. Folks, welcome. Hi. Thanks for inviting us. Are you guys traveling from different locations?

Utsav Somani: Are you sitting like close to each other? Like on opposite?

Khushboo Jain, Carepal Group: We're sitting at two different locations at the moment.

Utsav Somani: Awesome. So for our listeners who are hearing about Impact Guru and Carepal Group for the first time, can you describe the business and what it does?

Piyush Jain, Carepal Group: Sure. The Carepal Group is basically an integrated healthcare financing ecosystem, which is combining three businesses. Impact Guru is a donation crowdfunding platform, the number one in India, focused on funding critical illnesses for patients who are uninsured or underinsured in our country. Number two is Carepal Money, which is a healthcare lending marketplace. We provide 0% interest or very low cost interest loans to patients who have non-critical illnesses. And number three is Carepal Secure, which is insurance broking to help customers increase their coverage at a very, very low cost. So altogether, this ecosystem is trying to make healthcare more affordable and accessible for the vast majority of our population. You'll be surprised to know that 700 million people in the middle class segment in India have zero health insurance. And the balance 330 million who have health insurance, the average premium either the company or they pay is about 3300 rupees. So with that amount of money per year, you will have a very low average coverage in the country. So the vast majority of the country is missing when it comes to having sufficient amount of health insurance.

Utsav Somani: And tell us a little bit, I mean, these are all extremely impactful businesses and that's reflected in the name as well, Impact Guru. For all of these three verticals, can you tell us a little bit about the lives you've touched or the impact that you've created?

Piyush Jain, Carepal Group: Sure. So on Impact Guru, we have now helped about 55,000 patients with the help of 50 lakh donors who've made 90 lakh transactions. In fact, every minute about four to five people donate on our platform right now. And during COVID, every minute. During COVID, this was actually two donations per second. So this is about 1700 crores in donations and we have barely scratched the surface. And all of this is only possible because of the generosity of millions of people who are donating 1000, 2000 rupees. On the lending side, we have now already crossed 100 crores in terms of our annualized disbursement run rate. This is a new business we started in the last two years. The average loan is about two and a half lakh rupees and typically 0% interest, which makes this very, very interesting for the customers.

Utsav Somani: I mean, how does that work as a business model for you?

Piyush Jain, Carepal Group: Right. So actually, the hospitals are very much capable of helping subsidize the interest cost of these loans to the customers. And what they have to do is to provide a small discount on the overall healthcare service delivery costs that they have to the customers to make these loans interest free. And a lot of hospitals see a lot of value in making this more affordable and accessible for their customers, given the lack of insurance penetration that they have. So as a marketplace, we make a small distribution commission in facilitating these loans. And we've already helped over 5000 patients access these loans. The third business in terms of Carepal Secure, we've now sold about 250,000 insurance policies. Average, again, cost would be in the 3000 to 4000 rupees range. But what you'll find very interesting is in that very low cost, we are able to offer up to 25 lakh rupees of coverage because of a very unique insurance deductible strategy that we deploy.

Utsav Somani: Amazing. I mean, just the numbers are fascinating. And all of these are sort of like these business lines that are sort of complimentary to each other as well. So Khushboo, like here, I mean, a lot of licensing might be involved, right? For all different verticals. Like I mean, lending in itself is a different play. Distributing insurance is a separate play. And then crowdfunding also is a separate play. So how was it working with the regulators? And how did you come up with these lines of businesses? I'm guessing it's excessive.

Khushboo Jain, Carepal Group: I mean, it is all in-house. And we have all of the requisite licenses. So I'd have to say that the strong base that we've built in developing a very, very good crowdfunding team sort of helps us optimize costs and be operationally very, very efficient and comply with all of these regulatory requirements on the insurance side. Or if at all there's anything on the loan side. So yeah, I mean, it's a very, very unique structure where we have figured out a way to really, really use our massive army of people that we've deployed on the crowdfunding side who also help us do a lot of things on the cross-sell side. So their role is not just limited to... So it's not like we've built... Of course, we have three different verticals, but our teams are able to multitask and work seamlessly across all of these functions for the most part. So yeah.

Utsav Somani: Which one do you think is the hardest to run?

Khushboo Jain, Carepal Group: I think they all have their own set of challenges. Crowdfunding is... Well, I can say that now we've been doing this for 10, 11 years. So we know a thing or two about crowdfunding. So that makes crowdfunding easier. But on a country level, crowdfunding is still just about getting more mainstream, right? It's still getting accepted as a tool to cope from financial distress. On the other hand with... But of course, then there are... We've established ourselves as market leaders in crowdfunding, even though I feel like the country is still barely scratching the surface on the crowdfunding side in terms of exploring this as a solution. On the loan side, while we are a new entrant, I would say, but the industry is a little more established. So the conversation... It's easier to explain this product to people. It's easier to sell it. And because of our unique packaging, I feel like, especially with 0% interest loans, that's definitely become one of our USPs as opposed to maybe some of the incumbents. And on the insurance side, again, it's a very, very old industry. So big players, but we found our own little niche and our own modes to run it successfully so far. So I feel like we've found a healthy balance despite all kinds of challenges as there would be in any other business. Yeah.

Utsav Somani: Amazing. And I mean, a question for both of you. Given that, I mean, all of us, at least who are listening and tuning into the show, have probably come across a crowdfunding campaign for a medical emergency that many people list on your platform. In this world of AI, where people are generating fake receipts and all kinds of scams that run rampant across our country, like these digital arrests and people misusing information and so many other things that happen, what kind of checks and controls do you have before funds get dispersed to the end recipient?

Piyush Jain, Carepal Group: This is an excellent question itself. First of all, any individual who creates an online fundraising campaign on Impact Guru, we do the KYC authentication, right? Now, again, theoretically, somebody could Photoshop or Aadhaar or a PAN card, but we use the same authentication system that NBFC use so that we can verify whether those IDs are valid. That's step one. Step two is, you know, we are a medical crowdfunding platform. So people are raising, you know, medical fundraising demands for a specific disease. So we ask for documentation, which is typically a hospital estimate or a medical bill. But again, if that could also theoretically be Photoshopped, we have a very thorough verification team, what is called a trust and safety team, over 40 people, which basically diligences every case by contacting the hospitals and doctors, as well as, you know, we have direct verification hotlines established and email channels with so many hospital partners who we work with on a regular basis to do very quick verification. Beyond that, the last step comes for fund transfer. So all the money that people donate is collected into our bank accounts. And then we only disburse this money against verified and valid bills directly into the hospitals, pharma companies, or other licensed healthcare service providers. And of course, there's a small amount of reimbursement that goes into individuals' personal accounts, this is a due verification of bills. So in the last 10 to 11 years, people have attempted, you know, various kinds of fraud, but because of our very strong and robust processes, we've been able to keep that significantly in check. And what has helped us tremendously is for example, hiring people from the insurance industry who are experts in fraud identification and verification. So because of these very thorough and robust processes, we've been able to create a safe and secure ecosystem because we also learned from what's happened in the US with GoFundMe or Waterdrop in China. So we are constantly trying to stay one step ahead in terms of using AI and the latest technologies to ensure that a solid amount of trust that takes place. And one other thing I would just like to add with service, how does crowdfunding take place when anybody creates a fundraising campaign? The first set of people who donate are typically donors who know that patient or their patient family, which is a very important check because we have a very transparent way of showing how much money has been raised, who are the donors. And so people who do not have the right intentions will typically not be able to solicit any support because their immediate friends and family also will not be the ones who will be contributing to those campaigns. So because of these robust processes, we've been able to create a robust ecosystem and it's a continuous process, just like with the health insurance industry in India.

Utsav Somani: Kudos. And you mentioned US and China as well. Are there any in the crowdfunding industries there versus India? And we barely scratched the surface, as Kushmu mentioned, social culture differences in how these industries work across these three different geographies, US, China and India?

Khushboo Jain, Carepal Group: Right. So crowdfunding in the Western context typically is very, very broad based, right? Like with individuals raising funds for a wide range of needs, such as education, mental health, memorials, creative pursuits, even startups and community causes, right? So financial vulnerability. So the difference really lies in how the society looks at crowdfunding, right? The person asking for help and then of course the person that's donating. So financial vulnerability is very openly discussed and seeking support is framed as selfadvocacy versus some kind of personal failure, right? Donors in these contexts in the Western world are also very accustomed to supporting causes that are diverse and non-medical in nature, right? And they respond to personal stories versus just causes that require immediate survival kind of help. So in contrast to the West, India specifically predominantly, the crowdfunding industry in India is predominantly centered around medical emergencies. In India, medical need is increasingly viewed as a socially and morally acceptable reason to ask for help, to seek financial support publicly. It's changing rapidly and more and more people are open to the idea of asking for help. And illness now is perceived as circumstantial rather than a matter of shame or pride, right? So donors are highly responsive. Donors in India also react to this kind of sociocultural dynamic and they're more likely to support causes that are also again life-saving, causes that need lifesaving treatment, or again, they respond to causes that are all about medical emergencies or children related causes or causes where there is very, very obvious and visual hardships that are perceived, right? So while in the West crowdfunding as an industry and as a tool is used on a very, very broad basis, in India, it's used more so predominantly for medical causes. But the willingness in India to support these kind of acute crisis situations is very, very high. And that really makes medical crowdfunding in India very, very unique and special.

Utsav Somani: Sorry, please.

Piyush Jain, Carepal Group: If I were to just build on that, comparing on insurance and lending, in the US, it's an insurance first culture. Unfortunately, in India, that's not the case because of a lot of cultural reasons. The average age of our country is 30 and there's so many people living paycheck to paycheck. It's very difficult for people to think about putting 10 to 20,000 rupees as an annual health insurance premium and hope to get a significant claim funded in the next 30, 40, and 50 years. But on the lending side, again, US is a very deep market with regards to healthcare lending. For example, a company called Care Credit, they have 11 million healthcare credit cards outstanding. In India, medical lending, for example, is a very new category. But when we think about China, this is a country which has a single party and communism and no culture of giving when it comes to where they rank on the World Giving Index relative to some of the other countries. But you'll be surprised to know that just one platform, Waterdrop, is raising $900 million in donations per year. One third of China's population, 485 million, people have donated just on Waterdrop to help Chinese patients with medical needs.

Utsav Somani: Wow, and that's just medical. Unlike the US where education and other needs also come and raise on that.

Piyush Jain, Carepal Group: Yeah, China is only healthcare, very similar to India.

Khushboo Jain, Carepal Group: So I think there's a stark distinction in the way crowdfunding is used, right? China is similar to India, of course, much, much exponentially larger when it comes to scale and India will soon get there. But yes, it's more focused on emergency-based support-seeking versus let's ask for money for everything and donors will just oblige. So there's definitely a stark difference in the way crowdfunding platforms are used in West and East.

Utsav Somani: Let me ask you one final question or maybe two more questions. If you were to become the largest insurance provider and regulations were not a concern, what would you change in the world of health insurance?

Piyush Jain, Carepal Group: That's a great question. So let me break this down. When we talk about universal health coverage, what we want is not everybody having health insurance alone because theoretically you could offer five lakh rupees in India to the entire country. But you want the right level of coverage for the entire country. And if I could influence this in some way, I would want every individual in India to have a one crore health insurance coverage. But the first five lakhs being a deductible, what does that mean? It means that the first five lakhs is either funded from savings of individuals or from a different insurance plan. But you'll be surprised to know that if a five lakhs base coverage policy costs 7,700 rupees in India, which is expensive, but a five lakh deductible and 95 lakhs top-up policy costs less than 3,000 rupees. So at a very low cost, if you were to give a one crore coverage to the entire country, that would be a great thing to ensure that for the next 30, 40, 50 years, this middle class is going to have sufficient amount of health insurance coverage. And 3,000 rupees is not a big sum of money, right? So that would be one idea that we would like to propose that push deductible high coverage plans at very, very low cost.

Utsav Somani: Kusum, anything from your side?

Khushboo Jain, Carepal Group: No, I think Piyush has definitely come up with something that we both talk about all the time. I think it's a very fitting response to your question because I think from my side, if I really have to say something, I would say that I know regulations are important, but if I could just humanize this whole experience, right? I would ensure that no family should ever have to go through the financial distress when they're already going through medical turmoil. No family in India should ever be able to say that, oh, we did not get that one fighting chance to save our loved one's life. We can't really control medical outcomes, but we can definitely control the support somebody receives and access that they get, you know? So yeah, I think that would be my sort of take on this, yeah.

Utsav Somani: Awesome. I think we've exceeded our time, but one final thing. We're heading into the long weekend. It's a Republic Day. Let's warm our hearts a little bit. Can you share two impactful stories from people using your platform? Anything in the last two, three months?

Khushboo Jain, Carepal Group: So I love these. This is actually my favorite part of the work we do is impact stories, right? And we have so many of them. So one of the stories that comes to my mind is that of this gentleman by the name of Amit Shanoi, I think back in 2018, reached out to our platform. Again, somebody who had a lovely career, middle-class guy, doing very well for himself, wife earning, husband earning, both doing very well for themselves. And they had a lot of savings, which then had to get used up for a family member's treatment. And suddenly this guy gets diagnosed with blood cancer. Very young couple. And this guy, the husband gets diagnosed with blood cancer. And they literally had a month to put together whatever money needed. And 40 lakhs was the need of the hour. And they were able to put it all together in a week. And this is a family that actually started off with social stigma. They, you know, as it does, you know, and that's a very, very cultural, it's a very deep rooted thing in India. Oh, how can I ask for help? People are too proud to ask for help. What will people think? Will people judge me, et cetera, et cetera. So it started off with that. But then they decided to sort of overcome the social stigma and eventually, you know, have this leap of faith, start this fundraiser, not expecting anything to come out of it. And little did they know, within a week, they had like accumulated over 40 lakh rupees. And today him and his wife, I mean, he was able to get that bone marrow transplant successfully. I went and met him personally. And the kind of gratitude this family showed, I mean, they literally put us on a pedestal. And I mean, those are the kinds of things that really remind you of the mission that we're on, right? On tough days when things are not going well, when we are sort of overcome by so many challenges. These are the kinds of moments, you know, these are the kinds of impact stories that sort of help us pull through. And this family now, I mean, the husband and wife, they now have a son who was born a couple of years ago. So had he not overcome this challenge, this medical emergency and used our platform, I don't know what life would be, you know, if his life would be the same as it is. And now this family is a very happy family with a kid. And they're enjoying parenthood. And it's just amazing to meet these kinds of families. And I try to make it a point to meet as many of these families as possible, you know, to A, ask for feedback, you know, to see how we can do better. And B, just to see them do well, you know, because that's where my motivation comes from. I want to see such happy faces and take that energy back into work and work 10 times as hard, yeah.

Utsav Somani: Amazing. This was heartwarming. Thank you so much, Piyush and Khushboo, for coming on the show.

Khushboo Jain, Carepal Group: Thank you so much for having us.

Utsav Somani: Listeners, thank you so much for giving us your time. Have a wonderful long weekend. We have a special show for you on Monday, our 50th live stream ever. So we'll see you then. Bye-bye.